Do you as an artist focus on just one medium or one genre of work and really, really stick to that and master it? Or do you have a lot of different interests and have a hard time focusing or getting anything accomplished?
Brett Varon joins me, as a guest this time, to discuss being a very focused artist compared to crazy people like me, Sage, who have multiple mediums and genres going all the time. Come along with us as we explore what it really means to be a focused artist, the advantages and disadvantages of both ends of the issues, and how to deal with multiple interests in a way that won’t drive you crazy but will still satisfy your curious inner child.
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Find Brett Varon online at https://www.instagram.com/brett.varon/
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CREDITS:
Cover design by Sage; Illustration by Olga Kostenko
Episode photo and tile painting by Sage Bray Varon
Music by Playsound
Transcript
EP 027 One Medium Myth
SAGE – 0:00
We do it because we have to explore, because we are curious, because we want to go find out. But a child doesn’t go. I am a particular type of child because I’m curious. I’m just a child and I’m curious.
BRETT – 0:11
That’s what I do. Yeah. And you apply that curiosity.
BRETT – 0:14
To the things that you want to apply it to.
SAGE – 0:26
Hello, all my variously talented, creative friends. Thank you for joining me on the Sage Arts podcast. This is Sage and I am not solo today. I am in the studio with Brett. I brought Brett in.
BRETT – 0:37
We’re just jumping right in and.
BRETT – 0:39
I like that.
SAGE – 0:39
Yeah, I know. I’m not giving him any time to think what’s.
BRETT – 0:41
What’s going to happen? What are we going to say? Oh my.
BRETT – 0:43
Gosh, Because it’s going to.
SAGE – 0:45
Really be Brett focused today.
BRETT – 0:47
Well, I don’t like it to be on me, but I’ve trapped you. But I secretly do.
SAGE – 0:50
A chapter in this room and you’re like, stuck in that corner and you can’t get.
BRETT – 0:53
Past me. And I have the dog blocking me too.
SAGE – 0:56
And Embers decided she’s going to be part of this today, too. So we’re in here. And I really thought this would be a particularly good subject matter for Brett to speak to because of all the people I know, I would say you are the most focused creatively, like you’re so dedicated to your art form. And most people I know have multiple art forms, various materials. They work in, that kind of thing. And for some people that is kind of troubling. Like there’s this whole thing about like, you should be a master of one thing. And I tell people that I’m a Jill of all trades and a master of not because I do so many different things and doesn’t feel like I necessarily get one thing down really, really well. I mean, there are some things like, you know, teaching and stuff. I feel like I do really well and writing about things that I’m teaching. But in terms of art, this question has come up a couple of times just recently about whether an artist should be focused on one medium or one genre or one style or whatnot, and get just really, really good at that one thing, if that is relevant or not. And I think you have a really interesting point of view on this because yes, you have in no, you have not at the same time.
BRETT – 2:00
Done what.
SAGE – 2:01
Been both focused on something that had a very particular thing and really mastered it. And yet it’s not the only thing that you do. So I thought we were.
BRETT – 2:09
Going to talk.
SAGE – 2:10
Through that and I’ll probably interview you more like I’m interviewing somebody like a guest. You’re not a guest. You live here?
BRETT – 2:16
I’m a guest.
BRETT – 2:17
In my own house. This is wonderful.
SAGE – 2:20
So in any case, before we get started on this subject matter, I just want a quick shout out to a few people. Shout outs today. Go to Gina Gonzalez and Teresa Renner. Thank you so much, both of you. For the coffees or the coffee and tea that you bought me. I really needed that this week. It was really kind of crazy. And to all the people who wrote little comments back about the contrast episode, I really appreciate that. Mostly it was positive. You guys sound like you’re looking forward to more design lessons, but yes, comments. Some suggested keeping it a little bit shorter because it is hard. This is an audio medium and we’re talking about visual mediums and that was a particularly big concept for that. But also asking about the Zoom meetings that I talked about and I am working on that. I’d hoped to have it this month, but we have some crazy family stuff going on, all good stuff, nothing bad, just took up all my time. So we’re looking at July, if you want to be updated when those things are available, do please get on the newsletter list. I just sent out a really short one on Sunday mornings. That’s it. I don’t use it for anything else and you can get on that list by going to the Sage Ask.com, look for the news and notices button and sign up for that there. And then if you want to support me monetarily, like Gina and Theresa, you can do so also on that home page of the Sage Ask.com, just scroll down to where you find the buy Me a coffee and PayPal donation buttons. I really appreciate the support. Thank you for giving back. And if you just want to give me comments, you can do that again on say, target.com. But the contact page, you can also comment on Facebook or Instagram. Just go to the Sage Arts podcast pages and throw me a message or say something in the post. And we’re doing a lot more deals now. So go to Instagram for those. I’m reposting them on Facebook as well and those will explain more about the concepts in design that I’ll be talking about with images. So that’ll help. In any case, follow on Instagram and Facebook and then also follow any podcast player with a little follow button. And if you want, I am soliciting reviews now as well because I think you have enough to make comments about good, bad or otherwise. I love to hear it all. Thank you so much for all of your support. Okay, so let’s get on to this. So I guess the questions really are, do you as an artist, my listeners focus on just one medium or one genre of work and really, really stick to that and master it? Or do you have a lot of different interests and have a hard time focusing in? Have you found that to be difficult or detrimental or advantageous for you? And that’s we’re going to try to explore and hopefully get some answers in a general sense about, you know, I mean, for each of us, it’s going to be different, like whether that serves us or not to be focused or to have multiple areas of interest. But think about that as we’re discussing. And we’re going to talk through Brett’s particular journey of focus and branching out.
BRETT – 5:07
Yeah, I guess.
BRETT – 5:07
As you’re talking, it’s interesting to me that, you know, being an artist is is to me anyways is a big part of you have to be curious. You know, you’re a curious person. So when you’re curious, like you’re a very curious person, you want to know.
BRETT – 5:19
How everything works too.
BRETT – 5:22
You want to know who invented it and when, and you’ll remember all of these things.
BRETT – 5:26
It’s incredible.
SAGE – 5:27
I won’t remember all you things. I remember all these things well because I remember like a chunk of things and then I just.
BRETT – 5:32
I know things that you care about. You remember, right?
SAGE – 5:34
Well, yeah, I think that’s true.
BRETT – 5:35
But you remember.
BRETT – 5:36
Yeah, well, the things I care about. Yeah, but it’s more narrow.
BRETT – 5:40
I don’t care about much. Yeah.
BRETT – 5:42
Is what it comes down to. I’m highly.
BRETT – 5:43
Dysfunctional. Just full disclaimer.
BRETT – 5:45
Right now is not. I’m kidding. Well, I mean, you know, we all have our issues, right? But. But it’s the curiosity that that you have is an inspiration to me because you you know a lot about a lot of different things. Yeah. And I know stuff. Of course, I’m.
BRETT – 5:58
Not going to say.
BRETT – 5:59
Don’t, but but, you know, I’m very highly focused in one area and that’s how I want to, you know, engage my creativity, you know, as a main focus. And then all my other stuff that I love to do is is more like my outlet.
SAGE – 6:12
Yeah. So you actually my.
BRETT – 6:14
Freedom, you know.
SAGE – 6:15
Yeah. You treat your focus and your other.
BRETT – 6:18
Work.
SAGE – 6:19
Very differently.
BRETT – 6:19
I.
BRETT – 6:20
Guess I do.
SAGE – 6:20
But why don’t we give some background as to what you do and why. Because we’ve never really talked about your whole artistic journey. When did you first start making art? Do you remember the time when you first did something and thought, I’m going to make something of my own, I’m going to make a piece of art?
BRETT – 6:35
Yeah, yeah. There’s so many times like that. When I was a kid in the grammar school, you know, just when I would draw something, it always felt like that was for me. That’s what I wanted to be doing. Like that was important. I put a lot of value every time they put watercolors in front of us or had an art project, I would just do whatever I wanted and I felt very good about myself.
BRETT – 6:57
Yeah.
SAGE – 6:57
So you’ve done this since you were really young and you had a focus from a very young age.
BRETT – 7:03
Yeah, I guess I did. I watched a lot of TV and of course, animation cartoons are a big part of my life, you know? So I’d watch old Warner Brothers cartoons and anything. Disney, of course, all the the big stuff that they showed on TV. And and my dad had a huge interest in it, too. So we would, you know, share that. And I would always just go back and draw cartoons. I’d write comics and stories and things like that, express myself, you know, sometimes like, you know, frustrations would come through or speculation like this, you know?
BRETT – 7:34
Yeah, there’s.
SAGE – 7:35
Notes. You left your parents.
BRETT – 7:36
Yeah, we had crazy old.
SAGE – 7:38
Were you when you did the one that we have hanging out?
BRETT – 7:40
Yeah, I had a fight with my brother about who gets to put their foot on the bench while we watch TV. You know.
BRETT – 7:45
We had a little foot.
BRETT – 7:46
Wrestling. A little foot wrestling. It’s just the dumbest little thing. But this is what kids do. You know, I’m sitting there and it was my turn for the bench. And I thought I that’s what I thought was the case. You know, my brother was like, no, it was his turn. So he took the bench and we just got in a squabble about it, you know. Oh, we also thought about the, you know, who got the remote control. Yeah, those two things. Yeah.
SAGE – 8:06
And this one day you had, you were really upset about. Oh yeah. Decided to write it all down.
BRETT – 8:11
Well you.
SAGE – 8:11
Can’t. Your parents are off doing their antiquing and.
BRETT – 8:14
Yeah.
BRETT – 8:14
And well I always wrote them notes when and I was draw a little cartoons. Yeah.
SAGE – 8:18
And there’s and you’re how old when this like.
BRETT – 8:21
I don’t know maybe seven.
BRETT – 8:23
Very young. Yeah.
BRETT – 8:24
So I if you know someone called or you know I had to leave a note for my parents or something happened, My brother, I’d always write like, oh well you know, did this and did that, blah, blah. And I draw little cartoons and.
SAGE – 8:38
Cartoons all.
BRETT – 8:38
Over.
BRETT – 8:39
I think my, my parents, like, mostly laughed. I think it was it wasn’t like a heavy situation.
BRETT – 8:43
Yeah, but your.
SAGE – 8:44
Mom gave me a couple of those I guess. I guess it was the same incident and there’s a two pager and there’s cartoons all over it. Say something like. Like you got mad. And so there’s an angry face.
BRETT – 8:56
Yeah, I.
BRETT – 8:56
Put like, devil horns on the on the when I was mad. I’m like the person who’s being mean, you know.
SAGE – 9:01
And there’s random, but.
BRETT – 9:02
It’s also dumb. It’s just drawn. Just this, you know.
BRETT – 9:07
This inclination to just do a lot of that kind of stuff.
SAGE – 9:09
Yeah. So you’ve been drawing cartoons since you were very young. It was a that was a focus that was pretty much what you stuck with. And then when I met you, when we were like 15 and 16 or something like that, you were always drawing cartoons.
BRETT – 9:21
Yeah, just like now.
SAGE – 9:23
You’re always drawing and it was always cartoons. And you were very, very focused on that.
BRETT – 9:26
It was what I was exposed to. You know, I did watch a lot of cartoons on TV and it became part of my DNA, you know?
SAGE – 9:33
Do you know why when you were younger, you didn’t expand into other mediums? You’re probably exposed to all kinds of mediums and different types of drawing and painting. And I mean, why didn’t you have another focus?
BRETT – 9:44
It took until I was I think in 10th grade I talked to someone about animation and they said, well, if you want to learn, you do figure drawing and then movement, you know, put movement into your drawing. So figure drawings all about that and learning how to draw well and drawing from life instead of copying someone else’s kind of drawing, which is, you know, someone.
SAGE – 10:00
Else’s animation.
BRETT – 10:02
Someone else’s, you know, drawing style or the principles of it you want to learn how to draw from life. First is what I learned at a young age, and I saw the value in that.
SAGE – 10:11
Yeah, as it hones your eye instead of being about style, it teaches you to see.
BRETT – 10:16
It.
BRETT – 10:16
Teaches you to see. But with some expression, there’s always had to be an expression. Yeah. So I would love to bring the paints out and charcoals. And it was just a playground of like, you know, whatever. They’re just tools, you know, you know, different kinds of mediums. So my first degree drawing class was in 10th grade. And the fun part was I didn’t know there would be a naked woman involved. And when the robe came off, I was like, Oh, this is happening.
BRETT – 10:38
And it was pretty, pretty.
BRETT – 10:41
I kept a straight face, of course, and actually got right into the groove and I saw it as art.
SAGE – 10:46
So that was probably your first, like foray beyond animation as serious.
BRETT – 10:50
And yeah, I mean, I, I did it in order to learn animation, but then I ended.
SAGE – 10:55
In animation.
BRETT – 10:55
But then I ended up really liking it. I like the freedom of it initially. Then I had to learn how to draw well and I learned all these principles and that was a better way for me to learn the principles that way than through how to emulate someone else’s style. Cartoonist I wanted to like the root of what makes it work, not not just the surface of how other people made it work.
SAGE – 11:17
Yeah, I know how animation works.
BRETT – 11:18
So yeah, specifically like I love movement. That’s something I’ve always loved and I think that’s why animation appeals to me so much. I right. I like paintings with movement, like Duchamp, you know? Yeah. And Turner, like all that stuff has movement and energy and life to it and. Right. I’m drawn to anything like that. So. Right.
SAGE – 11:36
And then when you got out of high school, you tried to go to Cal Arts first, right?
BRETT – 11:41
Yeah.
BRETT – 11:42
Yeah. I went to apply and they said, Take another year and do a lot more figure sketches, you know, like they, they said, watch a sports game and watch sports.
BRETT – 11:52
And you’re like, And.
BRETT – 11:53
I was like, No, no, I don’t want to watch sports. No offense to sports lovers. I’m just not a sports guy. So. So yeah, I ended up going to State College first and I made a couple of films there just on my own. Yeah. And then I played to Coach and they’re like, they were more receptive.
BRETT – 12:08
So that was good.
BRETT – 12:10
I was so excited too. I was very exciting.
SAGE – 12:12
I know that’s where you won that. You talked about that when we were in high school.
BRETT – 12:14
I mean, it’s it’s.
BRETT – 12:16
The premier animation school at the time, especially now, there’s a lot more. But when I went it was like maybe two.
SAGE – 12:22
So there wasn’t a lot of the.
BRETT – 12:23
School. Yeah.
BRETT – 12:23
So when I got in, I made films and focused on animation, but then we had other classes too, and I liked it all.
SAGE – 12:31
Now you got into painting at one point. I mean, you were working in the back of a gallery and you didn’t want to give up the freedom of your own personal artwork to work for a studio.
BRETT – 12:42
I went through a phase like that for sure, because there was a lot for me to learn and I, part of me didn’t want to assimilate to what I needed to learn to perform as well as I, you know, do now, because I did end up learning. Yeah, but it, you know, when you’re when you first start, you might be inclined if you’re have a specific way of drawing or thinking you don’t want to abandon those things. So I took up abstract painting as my outlet. I was learning a lot of technique at the time, not that I painted an abstract painting. I just wanted to like finger paint like I was when I was. Yeah. So just be free, you know? So that took the shape of what you would call an abstract painting.
BRETT – 13:22
Yeah.
BRETT – 13:23
But then the idea of doing them really large was really exciting to me. Like these big, you know, 56 by 56 inch canvases, you know, pretty good sized you to do whatever I wanted and, you know, create, destroy, create, destroy. Not precious about anything, but just keeping my passion for moving things around visually, creating things good, bad, indifferent. It didn’t matter, you know?
BRETT – 13:47
Yeah.
BRETT – 13:47
And with that attitude or that spirit, I made a lot of paintings and then I ended up I was in the back of a gallery, sold a couple, which was kind of exciting, you know. But I didn’t do it for money. Yeah, but then I kind of saw Fine art world as a bit of a racket, and I thought, Well, I might as well do animation, because I love that too, right? I didn’t want to have to think of a market that I had to accommodate. But with animation, it’s different cause you’re storytelling and you have to think of your audience. At least I think you do. Yeah. In order to connect.
SAGE – 14:16
Right? Yeah. Telling me.
BRETT – 14:17
And when I do abstract art, it’s more like it’s not to connect, it’s to connect with myself, right? Or the self, you know, if you’re union or whatever, you know, you get kind of more of a primal kind of experience. Yeah. So I needed both of those to be functioning in me. So I guess when you ask me the question about how I started trying other things, I think there was a function in me that needed to retain the spirit of what drove me in the very first place when I was a kid.
BRETT – 14:46
Yeah.
BRETT – 14:46
Which was to just start doing things with whatever tools I had in front of me.
BRETT – 14:52
Yeah.
BRETT – 14:52
And whether they’re observations or objects or just free form and I lean towards the free form.
SAGE – 14:59
So yeah. Yeah. You, you found value in not just doing one thing, you felt like there’s two sides you that need to be fulfilled.
BRETT – 15:09
That’s a good way to put it. And I didn’t know that at the time. Of course.
BRETT – 15:12
It was.
BRETT – 15:13
Therapy to me, like to have my own space and I didn’t come home saying I need my creative space. You know, it wasn’t like that. It was just right. I just unhappy a little bit. Yeah. Like and I’m not a fan of technical work. It’s not something that drives me. And some artists are more technically oriented and I respect that and I envy it a lot of the time because it was I struggled with it more. But I have the other thing that works for me, you use the word master, and I don’t know if I ever feel like a master, but I’ll always reach for being a master at anything.
SAGE – 15:45
I don’t think anyone ever feels like a master. There was. Oh, jeez, I can’t remember. It was Oh, it was Rod Serling. He was in this class and I just saw this recently, and I’ll probably misquote this, but he was asking the students something about like how they felt about their progress in class or whatnot. And one student said, At what point do you not feel like an amateur? And Rod Serling says, You always feel like an amateur, like you’ll have moments where you feel like you’re accomplished it, but then you go back to being an amateur again, and I’ll have to get that quote in and actually quote it correctly. But yeah, because you’re always learning and there’s always something new around the corner that you have to accomplish or that you’re challenged by. And so to call ourselves masters is probably incorrect. Masters is kind of like that ideal pinnacle of what we’re doing to the point that we are always learning and we’re always a student on some level.
BRETT – 16:40
Always a student. Absolutely.
SAGE – 16:42
Yeah. So as far as your journey has been primarily an animation you’ve been focused on since you were little, you eventually gave up the dream of being a freewheeling.
BRETT – 16:54
Artist.
SAGE – 16:56
And became and went into animation. And you’ve been doing that for how many years now?
BRETT – 17:01
And
327.
SAGE – 17:05
Most of your adult life?
BRETT – 17:07
Yeah, most of my adult life. It’s it’s been a while, you know. Oh, and I should mention I there was a phase where I thought about being a piano player.
BRETT – 17:15
Oh, yeah. You know.
BRETT – 17:16
When I was in fourth grade, I saw someone play the piano and I was like, Yes, I want to do that. And I learned very quickly from this great teacher and I practiced. I still remember everything, you know? So you can’t.
SAGE – 17:27
Have another medium from a young age.
BRETT – 17:29
Really. I did. And you know.
SAGE – 17:30
What about.
BRETT – 17:31
I think one thing I learned from music is how much your body needs to learn the movements and things, you know, and then you can express yourself more freely once your body knows, like my fingers knew where to go, and then I could be expressive, right, with the music.
SAGE – 17:47
So there is something to be said for mastering or whatever you want to call it, understanding your medium and the techniques that you need to express yourself. So you don’t have to be thinking about that. Like, how do I manipulate this material or how do I play this piano that once you get to that point, it does help to have mastered the medium to the extent that you don’t have to think about how you’re working it yet.
BRETT – 18:12
But I was really dedicated and driven to learn those things. Yeah, I didn’t know I was. I just did it. When you’re a kid, you don’t know. I’ve got to do this. It wasn’t like that. It was just I would sit and I would just keep doing it until I got it. And then I came to a point where I would do it, of course, do cartoons, and I’d play the piano. This is like grammar school. And then finally I decided to stick with cartoons. By the time I got to high school. Yeah. And we met.
SAGE – 18:35
Yeah, when we met, yeah.
BRETT – 18:36
I didn’t talk to anyone about it, really. All this stuff. And you were the first person I.
BRETT – 18:40
Would tell you. Talk to me. You were the. You were the.
SAGE – 18:42
Person all.
BRETT – 18:43
The time. Exactly. Oh, that’s so weird.
BRETT – 18:46
Yeah, it was a very introverted thing for me. Yeah, because I. I’d have other artist friends and we would just show each other our work, but we wouldn’t talk about our process or what we wanted to do. But that was.
SAGE – 18:55
You and I did all the time. We always have our entire lives that we’ve known each other.
BRETT – 18:58
So the only reason this conversation is happening is because of you.
BRETT – 19:02
Because Because of me. Yeah.
SAGE – 19:04
We were in drama class, and this really cute guy came up and started talking to me for no reason, and I was really surprised. And he’s like, You want to do is get together. I was like, okay. And so it’s really your fault because you’re the super cute guy. I have two other girls had a crush on this. One guy came up and talked to me.
BRETT – 19:20
I have to add that I was I was pretty shy myself and you made me comfortable. So I felt for whatever reason, I could just come up and just start talking to you.
BRETT – 19:30
And you didn’t. You didn’t. I mean, you didn’t tell me. Go away. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I wish I.
SAGE – 19:34
Was going to take it away again, because everything else, like Vietnam know.
BRETT – 19:37
Used to.
BRETT – 19:37
Thank you.
SAGE – 19:38
But anyway, so. Yeah. So you have actually been through quite a number of mediums and in gone to animation that became your focus for a while through like when your daughter was growing up, you didn’t probably have a lot of time for something else. But yes, I mean, obviously it was your job, so you focused on that, but did you have other outlets during that time as well?
BRETT – 19:58
I did abstract paintings on and off, you know, okay. Periodically through that time. And I would just fill my sketchbooks. I had certain jobs at work where I had so much creative freedom to write and storyboard and compose and do the acting and that I spent all my creative energies. Yeah, completely laser focused on that, like 24 seven.
SAGE – 20:19
But also you had that freedom that you were talking about in.
BRETT – 20:22
In.
BRETT – 20:22
In. You have the freedom need.
SAGE – 20:24
To necessarily feel the need to get it elsewhere.
BRETT – 20:27
Exactly. Yeah. And then that will dry it up, you know, after a long, long run, you know, because culture changes and studios change and the creative atmosphere changed and they weren’t as open to that for anybody. I mean, it’s there, but it’s a little rarer right now, but it’ll, it’ll cycle back. So when you that artist do the work, you get better work if you let them do their thing.
SAGE – 20:47
So we think yeah.
BRETT – 20:48
So yeah, exactly. So the artist is.
BRETT – 20:50
Exactly Yeah. Sometimes maybe not.
SAGE – 20:53
Okay, so then like now you’ve been doing a lot of different things and I think in part because, you know, at some point you’ll probably either retire or pull out of the industry to some extent ever.
BRETT – 21:06
And I never.
BRETT – 21:08
Know at some point. Yeah.
SAGE – 21:09
So it seems like you’ve been looking at a lot of other mediums and some of them are new to you, but why all the different range of mediums if, for instance, you’re working with brush pins and regular pens, alcohol inks and you work on procreate on your iPad and you know, it just seems like you have a lot of sketching and drawing materials.
BRETT – 21:28
All over the place.
BRETT – 21:29
Yeah, I’ve been.
SAGE – 21:30
Constantly doing.
BRETT – 21:31
Been using brush pins for a long time, but I didn’t ever realize those are just, you know, duh. They’re, they’re a brush, you know, like.
BRETT – 21:37
A paint brush.
BRETT – 21:38
And I knew that intellectually, but I’m still using a marker is what I think, just like a brush tip marker.
SAGE – 21:43
So what do all these additional mediums do for you that you’re not getting in animation right now? Is it still the freedom thing or is there something additional that you’re getting out of it?
BRETT – 21:52
It’s a freedom. It’s freedom, but it’s also this sense that I could make with what I’ve learned over the years and have developed myself as an artist. I could do more what I call substantial, which is weird art. You know what I call substantial? I’d like to see that playground with all the things that I know come into play, and I’ve been enjoying seeing like different things come out of me, like, surprised myself, like, Oh, I didn’t know I would do that. And I did by now. And then I said, It’s wonderful. What is it for and what’s its purpose like? Well, who cares, right? But I care and it’s how I spent my time. And it’s not made to sell. So this is how I spend my time.
SAGE – 22:31
Are you having moments where you’re feeling like you should have an end goal with it? Or that should be saleable or at least should have some kind of dedicated purpose sometimes? Do you think this idea that there should be a purpose in these other things that you do, do you think that comes from just working for the studios, having purposes and having goals and things? I mean, you’re making a cartoon. It’s going to be sold, it’s going to entertain people. And then at home, on your own time, you’re making things for yourself.
BRETT – 23:03
Do they seep into my own personal world?
SAGE – 23:05
Yeah. Do you think the reason that you feel like there should be something more to what you’re doing, is it from that or is it or is it societal? Because like for me, I feel like there’s a bit of societal pressure to be like, Oh, why are you doing what you’re doing? Is it going to be so you can sell it or so you can posted on Instagram.
BRETT – 23:22
Or there is an acknowledgment to selling something you feel like it’s valued, right? And everyone wants to work value? Well, as artists, we all want an audience. Whether you want an audience to make money or whether you want an audience just to be appreciate it.
BRETT – 23:36
Yeah.
BRETT – 23:37
The way I see it is it’s ideally it’s not about a person’s ego being, you know, stroked. It’s more about the function of being an artist is letting the nature sort of flow through you.
SAGE – 23:47
Feeling like being heard.
BRETT – 23:49
It’s like someone can sing. They just have this natural gift to sing. They have this beautiful voice, you know, and you want to share that and you want it to be acknowledged. Right?
BRETT – 23:58
Right.
BRETT – 23:59
I think a great singer wouldn’t be like, Well, look at me. Look how great of a singer I am. It’s more about look at what this body can do. It’s just marveling at the I don’t know, to be so open on some corny, but to kind of marvel at the human experience, you know.
SAGE – 24:11
Like, I don’t think that’s corny at.
BRETT – 24:13
All. And I don’t know.
SAGE – 24:14
Because, I mean, that.
BRETT – 24:15
Is kind of like, wow, really is.
BRETT – 24:16
We can do this.
SAGE – 24:18
And I think the sharing is a really good point because, I mean, a lot of people feel the need to share. And since it’s really hard to, like, get into a gallery or have a spotlight to sell your work, social media has kind of filled that for a lot of people and they do get to share.
BRETT – 24:33
Yeah, you get to publish yourself now, basically.
SAGE – 24:35
Yeah. Which is, which is good. And it has its downsides too. But yeah, we do have an intense need to share what we’re doing because it is a form of communication. Even if you do it for yourself, you do something and you get excited and you’re happy about it. You usually want to share it with somebody. Yeah, it’s not like, Look at me, Look what I can do. But look, I’m so happy with this. Share this happiness with me. Is that how you see it?
BRETT – 25:00
Let me share this.
BRETT – 25:01
Yeah. Yeah.
BRETT – 25:02
That’s how I see it. Yeah. And you want people to like it, too. You’ve euphoria. Everyone has an ego. They want to feel like they acknowledge it. When I ever am in a head like that, I don’t feel like that’s the best form.
BRETT – 25:13
And think kind of.
SAGE – 25:14
Takes away from unself self-consciousness. Yeah. Of creating art when you’re thinking about what are other people going to think, Yeah, let’s kind of get back to the medium idea. So there’s this thing like I mentioned earlier, that we feel like we should master one thing, and yet most people I know who are creatives have multiple outlets. They do more than one thing.
BRETT – 25:38
Oh, curious souls.
SAGE – 25:39
I know.
BRETT – 25:40
Right? Curious.
SAGE – 25:42
So I think even if some business focused person is going to tell you master one thing, focus on that, sell that, push that so you’re known for it and that’s how you’re going to be successful monetarily, probably in success. There’s all different ways of measuring success and how it’s measured for you is completely up to you. So we hear this thing about we should just stick to one thing. But I think considering I don’t I can’t think of a creative out there that I personally know that only does one thing. So there must be an imperative for us to explore more things as artists because of curiosity, which is a primary definition for an artist. Artists are curious and they’re out there exploring through curiosity. That’s what makes them artists rather than just craftspeople. What do you think for you are the benefits of having multiple mediums or multiple modes of creative expression variety?
BRETT – 26:42
Yeah, you know, you get to do different things and people playful with all of those things. At least I would approach it that way for the for the fun of it, really.
SAGE – 26:53
So I do have some points that were brought up by different people online discussing this. One of the things that’s often mentioned is the fact that if you have more than one thing that you’re doing, it keeps you from getting into a rut or feeling like you’re kind of just stuck on that one track and that you have, like you said, variety.
BRETT – 27:11
I don’t know. It’s like if you ate like Mexican food every night, you know, you start to have a taste for something else.
SAGE – 27:17
Yeah, you get a little tired of Mexican.
BRETT – 27:18
Get a little tired of Mexican food.
SAGE – 27:19
So who’s going to get tired of Mexico?
BRETT – 27:21
I know Mexicans the best. I could have it every night. That’s that expat example. Porridge. Would You know if you have porridge every night, then.
BRETT – 27:29
Yeah, but that’s.
BRETT – 27:30
That’s what it is. I think you want to do things in different ways. Use your, your mind differently.
SAGE – 27:35
And I think if you are curious and you’re a curious artist, sticking with one thing isn’t going to allow your curiosity to really be fed. I mean, one of the reasons that I do all the things I do is because I have an insatiable curiosity and I’m always looking for new things. And it doesn’t matter what level of curiosity you have if your curiosity doesn’t have things to seek out and wonder about, it’s going to be, well, sad.
BRETT – 28:01
Yeah, maybe it could get bored.
BRETT – 28:04
But if there’s not an inclination to do that, like how we do anything is how we do everything right. So whatever we’re focused on, we can learn within that If you want to just focus on that one thing.
SAGE – 28:14
Right? But you want to keep, that’s.
BRETT – 28:16
Okay too, as I’m trying to.
SAGE – 28:17
Say. Oh, yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. There’s nothing wrong with sticking with one thing. Yeah. And I have had, you know, people mentioned to me they think they’re one trick ponies. I think whatever makes you happy and whatever makes you satisfied, fulfilled, that’s what really you should be doing. I mean. Yeah, but yeah, if you have a variety of things, it’s going to be hard to get into because you can always move to something else and feel like your creative energy has been refresh your imagination is has been challenged. And then the other thing that’s brought up quite often is having multiple things gives you options for visual expression or creative expression. If you have some things that don’t fit into one medium, some things that you want to create some ideas and they don’t work so well in one medium, then you can use another medium to express those same things. And it allows you to either make stuff for yourself, to mix your mediums or have a sideline medium or sideline type of art. It just allows you to inform your primary work with these sideline items that get your brain going down different tracks, and it allows it to see things differently. And that kind of brings it to another point that people brought up refreshing your creativity by stretching your brain. Because again, like we were talking with curiosity, we need to challenge our brain constantly to keep it limber and keep ideas flowing as well, and then bringing in inspiration from other mediums into your primary work. Like when I was doing the blog for the Polymer Arts, the weekly Polymer Arts blog, I was doing it three times a week at one point and on Fridays I always did artwork that was not polymer art. Yes, you’re very passionate about your particular art form and you want to look at what other people are doing to get ideas or whatnot. But it’s all design. So you can look at another medium or even a completely different form and seeing what people are doing, what people are talking about. And instead of just sticking in your one medium, because all of our mediums are areas of art will tend to have trends. And if you’re exposed to a lot of the trend, you may not be able to break out or break away from them so readily. But look at other areas, you know, what are other people doing? What are other mediums doing? Well, there other forms of creativity doing, and that could help stretch your ideas within your primary medium. And then also working in different mediums can force you to see your work and your medium in a new way, because you won’t always see it from kind of like a limited point of view. Like if I only worked in polymer clay and I didn’t do all these other things, I would always think of things three dimensional and think in terms of construction, because polymer is very much about construction. You design it and then you make the pieces and then you put them together for a lot of the forms. And if I didn’t also do photography and painting and stuff, I don’t think I would pay attention to the composition as much as I do or to the design elements of color and subtlety and.
BRETT – 31:08
Like the principles of of art in a way.
BRETT – 31:10
Yeah, a lot express.
BRETT – 31:11
Themselves in different mediums.
SAGE – 31:13
I think they get lost in the technique a lot of times for me, because polymer is just like, you can do so many things and you can just get lost in that. Yeah, all those, those options because there’s so many of them. So I love the fact that I can go to something else, like go to my photography and I do ICM intentional camera movement and see things in terms of movement that I wouldn’t see in polymer because I’m out in a world where everything is alive and moving.
BRETT – 31:40
Yeah, and you bring that to your polymer work when you do, right? Exactly. All cross pollinating.
SAGE – 31:45
Right. So do you see in what you’ve been doing, especially now, you’ve been really, really delving into the alcohol links in the brush markers as brushes.
BRETT – 31:53
Yeah. Natural brushes and actual brushes.
SAGE – 31:56
Are you seeing that inform your work when you’re going to the studios and working on the cartoons and you’re on? By the way, people want to know you’re working on the Patrick Show. Yeah, that’s the project you’re on now.
BRETT – 32:07
Yeah, it’s the.
SAGE – 32:08
Nickelodeon’s.
BRETT – 32:08
The SpongeBob spinoff and Nickelodeon, I would say. Yes, I think they cross-pollinate each other. I get to use my passion for for making things in different ways, not just one way at work. There’s a specific goal that I have and also thinking out of the box and having fun there. You know, you need to do that as well with ideas. Oh, good writing.
BRETT – 32:27
Yeah.
BRETT – 32:28
So when I come home and do something totally different, it gives me like a little vacation from the pressures of doing that.
SAGE – 32:34
And you as a director, you don’t do quite as much of the creative work anymore as you used to. You kind of herd cats herding cats.
BRETT – 32:42
It’s funny.
SAGE – 32:43
You have a team of different people who work on different levels.
BRETT – 32:47
It’s storyboard work. So yeah, who work on that stuff. And I do get my hands in it a lot. But yeah, I don’t do the storyboard itself from the beginning, but I guide it because I know it so well that I can help the medium.
BRETT – 32:59
I help her now, but.
SAGE – 33:00
But you come home and you do the creative work. Do you think that allows you to connect with your storyboard artists and your what do you call them or punch up artists? And yeah, all these people now, they need to have more freedom. They need to have more breadth to what they’re doing and is what you do, is that something you can bring to them and help them create more fluidly with more freedom and is this because this show is a very loosey goosey show?
BRETT – 33:27
Yeah, it’s very it’s a very cartoony.
BRETT – 33:29
Fun spirited show. And I think everyone who likes the spirit of the randomness of a cartoon.
BRETT – 33:35
Like this should be.
BRETT – 33:37
Able to express themselves. I like to honor an artist’s sort of approach on something as long as just go off the rails and it doesn’t make sense. Yeah, I don’t get into this role to tell people what to do. No, it’s more like nurturing and bringing out the best because that’s what I want. And I had that opportunity from a lot of directors that I worked with. They let me grow as an artist and I’m really grateful for that.
SAGE – 33:58
Yeah, Yeah. Then the things that you do here at home, the things where you give yourself that freedom, does that translate to how you teach and direct your team?
BRETT – 34:07
I think it plays a role because I’m engaged in the creative process of my own and I feel what they’re potentially feeling, which is I don’t know what I’m doing.
BRETT – 34:20
Oh yeah, that’s great.
SAGE – 34:21
So it gives you more empathy for people. They’re in a learning phase that you’re already you’ve been through.
BRETT – 34:28
Yeah, and I know that you’re always starting over. Like Rod Serling said, you always feel like an amateur and people have this, like, imposter syndrome that they talk about, right?
BRETT – 34:35
Yeah.
BRETT – 34:36
It’s like, you know, if you love to do it, do it and develop your ability of doing it. And there’s no imposter like you just you do it or you don’t. Unless you just copy someone else’s work, then you are kind of an imposter because you’re not really drawing from anything within yourself.
BRETT – 34:52
Right?
SAGE – 34:53
So, yeah, so it’s great that you’re able to kind of be in that position yourself and have an understanding of what they’re going through because you’re you come home and be like, I don’t know how to use alcohol. And I, I didn’t even know these markers are brushes.
BRETT – 35:07
Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah.
SAGE – 35:11
Isn’t it a weird thing that we think that way where we have to think about whether we’re real artists or not? Now I have a little bit of a soapbox about defining artists versus crafters and stuff like that. I know it’s not necessarily a popular viewpoint. I just like to reserve a word for people who spend the time being curious and being exploratory and doing things from a very authentic position that they should be defined differently than people who make things, who just make things. They make them very well and make them with absolute mastery. But they’re still craftspeople because they’re not exploring and they’re not using that curiosity to lead them to the next thing or the next thing. But the fact that we feel the need to define whether we are real artists is very odd because, like you said, and I really appreciate that outlook, is that it’s not whether we’re real artists or not. That’s not what this is about. We’re doing this because we have to do it. Yeah, we do. Because we have to explore, because we are curious, because we want to go find out. But a child doesn’t go. I am a particular type of child because I’m curious. I’m just a child and I’m curious.
BRETT – 36:21
That’s what I do. Yeah. And you apply that curiosity to.
BRETT – 36:24
The things that you to.
BRETT – 36:25
Apply it to.
SAGE – 36:25
Right? Yeah. And so if a child is curious about this dog right here, then they’re, you know, curious about the dog, but they don’t think I’m a veterinarian type person or a real animal person. You know, I just like dogs. And I’m going to go outside and and figure out why the grass is green and why because.
BRETT – 36:42
It’s.
BRETT – 36:42
All really fascinating. Like, you know, just take something for granted.
SAGE – 36:45
But in a way, maybe we should be taking it for granted that we are artists and we’re just going to make things. And we don’t need to be labeled as real artists. You go out and you make things and who cares about the label? Because at the end of the day you have to be happy with what you’re doing, not even regardless of a label outside of it.
BRETT – 37:03
When you when I see you see someone’s an artist.
BRETT – 37:06
People are going to think, What are they going to think? They think all this stuff like, is it like Michelangelo? What kind of writers are we talking about here? And it could be anything.
SAGE – 37:12
Labeling is a shorthand. It’s a way for us to communicate in very succinctly, but.
BRETT – 37:17
But very clumsily.
SAGE – 37:19
Yeah, because it can lead to misunderstanding or misinterpretation of what it is that we’re trying to discuss or put forth. So I don’t want to say that we concluded anything from this discussion like that. We didn’t start out with.
BRETT – 37:31
My feeling is it’s just always a conversation there are no answers except to go engage the experience yourself. And there you find the answers every time. And then at least when I’m done, I forget what the answers are. Again, have to go back in and I am.
SAGE – 37:46
Asking the same questions over and over again.
BRETT – 37:47
It’s you just.
BRETT – 37:48
Go back in and then you rediscover the process.
SAGE – 37:51
Yeah.
BRETT – 37:52
And it’s the best process there is to me.
SAGE – 37:54
Yeah. So we started out obviously with a bias towards you don’t need to master one thing. I don’t think that’s changed our conversation here, but for those of you listening, you may need to decide do you feel fulfilled and happy and still curious? Sticking with more or less one thing? And if that’s true, then there’s really no reason for you to expand beyond that. And if you’re like me on the other end of the spectrum, pretty much and you do, I don’t know how many things am I doing right now?
BRETT – 38:27
I always lose. I always.
BRETT – 38:29
Lose count.
SAGE – 38:30
All right. I’m seriously doing photography. I’m seriously doing poetry, I’m seriously doing novels. I’m seriously doing acrylic and polymer on stone tiles.
BRETT – 38:40
And podcasts and.
SAGE – 38:42
Doing a podcast. Yeah. And on top of that, I’ve also been interviewed twice this week and I’m always trying to help out other people with what they’re doing. So yeah, that can get a little crazy. I do have to say, and I think if you’re struggling with the idea of whether you should be narrowing down your interests, I would say don’t narrow down your interests, but maybe you should have priorities. So that’s what I’ve decided. I’m going to prioritize my novels because I’ve been writing them for two and a half years now. Well, one of them, actually, technically, I’ve been writing for like 12 years now, and my acrylic and polymer work on stone tile because honestly, I’m just obsessed with it right now. And I also don’t know it as well as the other things that I do. So I feel like that’s what I need to learn the most. So those are the things I prioritize, the.
BRETT – 39:28
Acrylic.
SAGE – 39:29
The acrylic on tile stuff. And so that’s why if any of you are are followers of my personal page Sage Erin, I haven’t posted in probably almost a month, but that is because it’s primarily photography and poetry, But I’ve kind of set that aside for right now.
BRETT – 39:43
I think you just combine all of these things into one.
SAGE – 39:46
Oh, I actually have an idea.
BRETT – 39:47
For that, and that makes sense, right?
SAGE – 39:50
But what I’m saying is that if you have a lot of different interests, maybe you prioritize a few and you don’t worry about the rest. Like I’m never planning on making money off my poetry. For instance, I’ve been writing poetry my entire life, and it’s just something that I do. I do it for me. I like to share it. I like the little tidbits that I put out there, and people are like, Oh, I know what you mean. It connects to me, you know, and I do want to put my collection out someday, but it’s not a priority. It’ll happen when there’s space for it to happen. But I think if you are struggling because you like to do a lot of different things, pick one or two priorities and make those the things that you regularly schedule into your week to make sure that you get to that. And then the other stuff is fun stuff, right? Like we go hiking and drives in your convertible or we go to museums or whatnot, and those are things that aren’t something that we expect an outcome from. Like we don’t go hike in order to make money or in order to have a product at the end of it, we go to enjoy it. So those other things that we do that may not be our priority are the things that we go and we enjoy. I will go enjoy writing my poetry. I will go enjoy doing my photography, which still works its way into other stuff. But I’m not going to worry about what’s my end product, what’s my end goal with those particular.
BRETT – 41:04
Interests, goals, goals.
SAGE – 41:05
Right. Yeah. You don’t have to have any end goals for those interests, just like you don’t have any end goals when you go for a hike or you hang out with friends or anything, it’s because you enjoy it and that is the goal. So that’s my advice, is that if you do have something that you love so much, it’s all you want to do. Go for it. There’s nothing wrong with that. And if you have a lot of different interests, pick some priorities so that you’re not driving yourself crazy and then just enjoy doing the other things When you work that time in, do you have any thoughts on that?
BRETT – 41:34
Yeah, do what you love. It’s like swimming. If you jump in a pool and you find yourself really enjoying it and you just keep wanting to swim and just hang out in there, then do not.
SAGE – 41:41
Go out and turn into a prune. It’s fine.
BRETT – 41:43
Prune it up and.
BRETT – 41:44
Get burnt and yeah.
BRETT – 41:49
The metaphor is.
SAGE – 41:50
Well, thanks so much for sharing your story about your different mediums and how that has helped you and worked into the various things that you do with your career. And if you, my listeners, have your own little stories, we would love to hear them. I would love to hear them. Maybe I shouldn’t speak for Brett.
BRETT – 42:06
I’d love I would love to hear them right? Yeah. Because other.
SAGE – 42:09
People’s.
BRETT – 42:09
Stories, I.
BRETT – 42:10
Love talking about this stuff.
SAGE – 42:11
Yeah. We go out with our artistic and creative friends and we listen to their stories and try to pull out little stories from them all the time. So it’s kind of a thing, but if you are interested in sharing them, I love to share stories. I love to hear them. You can write me through the contact page at the Sage Cars.com. You can also reach out on the Social media pages on Facebook and Instagram under the Sage Arts podcast. You can send me messages there or make comments in the posts. And if you want to give back to this project, you can do that on the home page of the Sage Arts dot com. Just scroll down and you’ll see buttons for buy me a copy and PayPal that you can give donations through and all of links are also available in the show notes on the podcast player that you’re listening to this through. And if you are listening through one of the podcast players like Apple or Spotify or Google, go ahead and hit the follow button. So you’ll always be notified when the next episode is up. And it also helps with my ratings as far as where we land in the searches so we can get more artists to join us on this conversation. That being said, Brett and I are going to go off and, I don’t know, walk.
BRETT – 43:12
The dogs, eat some food.
SAGE – 43:13
Something like that.
BRETT – 43:14
Yeah.
BRETT – 43:14
No, guzzle whiskey. I don’t know. What are we going to.
BRETT – 43:16
Do with whiskey? No, not whiskey.
SAGE – 43:18
Whiskey or we’re going to go out and be curious. Yeah. That’s what we’re going to go do.
BRETT – 43:23
Go to go tend the garden.
SAGE – 43:25
Garden of imagination. Oh, my gosh. It was getting late, so. Well, thank you all for joining us on this episode of the Sage Arts podcast.
BRETT – 43:35
That was fun.
SAGE – 43:36
Right? So, Brett, thank you for coming.
BRETT – 43:38
Thanks for having me. This was.
SAGE – 43:39
Fun. Great. I feel so.
BRETT – 43:41
Official like an actual guest.
SAGE – 43:42
And I know you’re actually going to be a guest this time.
BRETT – 43:44
It’s I don’t know.
SAGE – 43:46
I’m. I just sit there and listen to me talk.
BRETT – 43:47
Yeah, I like it.
BRETT – 43:50
To be about us and our conversation. Yeah, it’s good. It’s, you know, you never know what’s going to.
SAGE – 43:54
Now I just have so much to say.
BRETT – 43:55
Yes, you do. It’s. And in a good way, you know?
SAGE – 43:58
Well, all of you out there, thank you so much for joining us. Do remember to feed your muse, Get out there. Be curious. Be true to your weirdness and join me next time on the Sage Arts.
