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Are you looking for a challenge aimed at helping you develop a more singular focus or are you looking for ways to make your art more accessible and desirable for galleries, shows, publications, wholesale, etc? My guest Deonne Kahler and I talk about the process of creating a series or themed body of work and the advantages and challenges of taking on this type of project. We also touch on ideas and skills that could just add some fire and focus to your present your artistic process.
Deonne Kahler is an award winning photographer whose work has hung in many a gallery coast to coast. She’s bravely looking down the road to her next big artistic project, a photographic series and memoir. Join us for an insider’s view of the development of her series, why she’s choosing to do this kind of work now, what it has to offer you in the way of food for thought, and how to start on your own series or themed body of work.
Contact my guest:
https://www.facebook.com/deonne.kahler
https://www.instagram.com/deonnekahler/
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CREDITS:
Cover design by Sage; Illustration by Olga Kostenko
Music by Playsound
For Transcript click on the episode here: https://rss.com/podcasts/thesagearts/
Transcript
–Deonne: Kahler:
Figure out what the frame is for this thing. That you’re obsessed. With, you know, then you can really drill down, be specific, which is to me, always makes for. Much better work.
–Sage:
Hello all my adventures. Creative friends. Thank you for joining me today on the Sage Arts Podcast. I’m sage, your host and. Metaphorical road trip partner on this artistic journey of ours, I will be shortly joined by a multi talented creative who, like many of us, is looking at shaking things up for herself and her body. Work Dianna Kaler is an award-winning photographer whose work has hung in many a gallery coast to coast. She’s bravely looking down the road to her next big artistic project, which is a photographic series, among other things. And we’ll get to hear about what that means. But mostly we’ll get an insider’s view of the development of the Series A first time. Project for DIY. We’re going to talk about her process for developing a theme and concept why she’s choosing to do this kind of work now, what it has to offer you as far as food for thought and how to start on your own series or themed body of work. So come on in. Have a seat on my company chair here in the podcast studio, I posted a real of this studio. Based on Instagram and Facebook on the podcasts pages, if you want a visual of what I’m inviting you into, just search for the Sage Arts podcast, all one word, and check that out and follow if you have. Ready now? You might have to fight Ember, my black German Shepherd for the big comfy chair at. The moment, or at least. Agree to share with her which you. Would definitely prefer. She’s super sweet and loves people. I like to say I could teach. Her anything if. I could just give her people as treats. But yeah, she snuck. In here, before I closed up to record and it’s just staring at me. Probably wondering why we haven’t gone out for a walk and why she can’t wander the yard on top. For that, it’s because there’s a really huge storm outside a.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Really weird storm.
–Sage:
We live an hour north of Los Angeles, and if you know anything about the area, you know we don’t get a lot of. Weather, especially this type. It rains a few times early in the year, but that’s about it. But what it doesn’t do for sure is snow, right? Well, the Santa Monica. Mountains are kind of just hills, really. Just down the road from us has snow in the forecast and the mountains north of us are under a Blizzard. Warning now this isn’t freaking me out because I lived in crazy weather Colorado for 20 years, but we don’t get Blizzard warnings and people are trippy. It actually did snow. Here in well in nearby areas about 30-4 years ago, but yeah.
–Deonne: Kahler:
People will not be ready to.
–Sage:
Drive in this stuff. If they hit areas of snow. So this will be interesting. Hopefully everybody will stay safe, but we are staying home and indoors as our forecast of four inches of rain in about 36 hours is coming down right now. So that’s why I have a dog in here staring at me today. She promises to be quiet, although the weather hasn’t been so accommodating. So I hope any downpour won’t ruin the audio. To you, as usual, let’s get some quick shout outs going before we dive in. I want to thank Shelley Atwood for sending me a little love. She bought a bunch of coffees for me and left a wonderful note, she said. The last episode, episode 11, your Pathy Groove, really spoke to her much like myself, she hates to make the same thing. More than once, but even though she is. Always trying to create something completely different from what she’s done before, she can still see herself in each piece, and then she said. And I love this line. I suppose it’s true that artists are always making self portraits. And yeah, if you think about it, if we’re being authentic and putting our voice into our work, they are effectively self portraits. They represent part of us now. I can’t remember who first said that, but it’s a good reminder that what you make are really pieces of you. And I think it will get you to look at your pieces. Differently like, is this really me? When you look at it as a form of critique of your work self critique, you can start asking yourself that question. Is this me? As in is it an honest self-portrait and let your discoveries from those answers help lead your artistic choices? So thank you so much for that inside. Shelly, if you want to send me some comments or love or whatever you can do so by going to the show notes of this episode or reaching out on the website thesagearts.com where you can go to the contact page to send me a message. Or to give back stay. On home page, scroll halfway down to use the buy me a coffee or PayPal. Donation buttons. OK, if you’ve worked out the chair situation with them now, or are all set up to work in your studio or otherwise settled safe and ready. Let’s get started. The questions you might. Want to keep in mind today and these work as a counterpart to last week’s episode that spoke to whether you need a focus or not? Is would a focused project like a series or identifying a theme in your work to pull together a cohesive collection be of interest to you? Are you looking for a challenge? Aim to help you develop a more singular focus for a limited period of. Maybe if a series or theme collection is something you haven’t considered, or if you tried it before and found you. Weren’t quite ready. Well, perhaps today we can help you see the advantages and a path to trying one this year or if you’re not ready, you may find parts that could add some spark and focus to your present artistic process. So with that, come on in and let’s meet my guest. John Taylor is a writer and award-winning photographer, and she’s here today to talk with us about our individual artistic journeys and what having a body of work or creating a series could mean for you. And to be. Honest for her so welcome, John. I’m really. Excited to have you. With us today, thanks so much, sage. I’m really. Happy to be here. Let’s start at the beginning. With a quick introduction and then some get to know your questions before we dive into the core of our conversation. So Dion briefly. Just tell us what you do artistically to start with what kind of photography you do and what’s your creative.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Yeah, I’m a writer and photographer. I’m also a singer, actually, but writing and photography are the two things I do the most and creative focus. I’m a memoirist and a personal essayist. And so I’m a non.
–Sage:
You’re writing, yeah.
–Deonne: Kahler:
So I’m a nonfiction writer and then photography. I’m definitely a landscape photographer.
–Sage:
Right. And I love the areas you photograph there, like my places as well. The deserts and and some of the ruins you find out there and that kind of stuff. So you live in South Dakota, right? Rapid City or just outside.
–Deonne: Kahler:
There, just outside of Rapid City. Yeah, I spend most of my time here. It’s in. It’s called the Black Hills, OK? And it’s just, it’s where Mount Rushmore is for anybody who isn’t quite super familiar with South Dakota, and it’s just a really beautiful but interesting because most of South Dakota is the plains.
–Sage:
OK.
–Deonne: Kahler:
But then we had the black. Hills from the West. Side three years ago, my dad died.
–Sage:
Right.
–Deonne: Kahler:
And before he even got really sick, I thought it was probably time to move closer to my parents. So I had been living in Taos, NM, and I still have a place there. So I still spent a. Lot of time in Taos. But I also spent time in San Diego, CA. And that’s where I grew up.
–Sage:
Actually, could you paint a picture of where you’re at because you’re not in the middle of an urban or suburban area? You’re kind of out in the middle. Of nowhere, right. I’m very much out in the.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Middle of nowhere. Yeah, I live in. Like close to Rapid City, which is a city of about 80,000 people, I think. And I live on a ranch and my ranch. Is just north of town essentially. But I’m touched behind all these hills and so I don’t actually see it ever, which is my preference. My whole goal in life has been to have no neighbors that I could see. And so now I have that I actually have that here on the wrench. Like I can’t see. Any of my neighbors, because they’re too far. So it’s thrilling. The introvert in me. Is just, so it’s like.
–Sage:
That’s great, right?
–Deonne: Kahler:
It’s the greatest thing. So yeah. So I live on a ranch. I lease it out. So I’m not actually doing any of the ranching, but yeah. And I’m renovating the little house on the property and I. I live here most of the time now so.
–Sage:
Oh, tell us a little bit about your photography career. What do you do as far as your? Is it your primary career or do you have other? Aside from that, you know.
Speaker
Like all of.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Us, you know, being artists is a really, really hard way to make a living and pay the bills. And I am very lucky. I own actually some rental property. I’ve also had businesses and other things that have paid the bills the primary bills. But in the last few years of my life, I definitely have not had to really worry so much. And have been lucky enough to just really kind of focus. On the creative projects.
–Sage:
Do you have any passions besides your photography? You mentioned singing, and you do the writing as well.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Yeah, I actually. Have a bigger one that well, not bigger than writing necessarily, but yeah, this singer my whole life. And that was the first creative thing that I. Did and I’ve had a band and I’ve done the whole drill, CD’s and the whole thing this. I mean it used to be my career. Actually, and it is not anymore, which I’m totally fine with.
Speaker
Oh wow.
–Deonne: Kahler:
And then the writing has been a major part of my life since my 20s. You and I share this. You know, lots of freelance writing and. I did that. For a really. Long time and now I’m pretty much focused on just creative writing.
Speaker
Let’s focus.
–Deonne: Kahler:
But my actually my other really huge passion is is service and my whole adult life. I’ve been an activist and involved with great nonprofit organizations, and my focus has primarily been on equity for women and girls. But then I’ve also been really passionate about the national parks and that’s really how I started getting known as a. Photographer was because some people would say. Oh well, you shoot in the parks, but. You don’t do it in a stereotypical way so. I would say service actually is my other really big passion in life, yeah.
–Sage:
So OK, here’s a more weird question. Do you find yourself to be a planner or a pantser, and do you plan your work, or do you just kind of make it up as you go along? Or do you just wait for opportunity you know?
–Deonne: Kahler:
I always wanted to be a planner because I. Think I always just admire those folks. And I feel like they get more. Things done and. They’re more thorough. And I am, but I’m such a pantser. And it’s really whatever grabs me. But I will say, and I I’m assuming we’ll have a little time to talk at this later this no more project that I’m working on will definitely be planned out and this will be my first project. Where I will have done it that way. And so, you know, talk to me in a year or so when I’m almost done with that hopefully and I’ll let you know how it went.
–Sage:
Right. If you are convert to the planning approach.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Yes, because I love. I love the planning idea. I mean, I I love it. I love. I I even got a quick bird I. Got the bird because. Start because I I just. Start because I want. To be that person who puts her index cards. You know, up on the corkboard.
–Sage:
That’s so funny. I have. I don’t. Even know how? Many cork boards I have here from all over the.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Ohh see love a good code word.
–Sage:
Place I’m crazy. Yeah, and kind of. The fun questions. Do you have a favorite guilty pleasure?
–Deonne: Kahler:
Dude, I do. And I’m so embarrassed to admit. This because it’s really. It’s like, really, I know it’s really that.
–Sage:
The pleasure.
–Deonne: Kahler:
I love KFC.
–Sage:
OK.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Oh my God. I know everything about it is so long. You know once. In a while, you just cruise into a town and you’re like, you know. I’m just going to get a little two piece box. Who’s gonna get it? I’m doing it and.
Speaker
It’s it’s, I’m.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Just doing it, you know, I’m getting those. Mashed potatoes that. Are like freeze.
–Sage:
Whatever, yeah.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Dried and and it is freaking delicious.
–Sage:
Yeah, you know, I was thinking about this today because I’ve asked this with a couple other guests. I don’t know if they’ve made it into the edited versions, but I’ve never said what mine is. So since you shared that and it’s a road trip thing, because this is a road trip thing for me too, my guilty pleasure. Food, which sounds so weird because I’m a Whole Foods.
Speaker
It was.
–Sage:
Very clean flexitarian. My guilty pleasure is funions. So you’re on the road and you’re just like, getting walking to a gas station and then you look over and there’s, like, a bag of funions and. I’m like sometimes. Not very often in. Fact it’s been a little while.
–Deonne: Kahler:
I wanna tell you that. Is my go to. Snack food. I’m not making this up.
Speaker
Wait, yeah.
–Deonne: Kahler:
That’s my go to yes.
Speaker
Is it? It’s what it is.
–Sage:
It’s like crushed up corn with onion. Powder in, I don’t know.
–Deonne: Kahler:
It just, I mean I I functions are not off the table. For me, KFC could should kind of. Be off the table. Functions are not off the table, so I love you for saying this all about the funyons. I think I even made an image. I was on the road and I was sharing an Instagram and. Breakfast that day was a small bag of onions. And a large coffee, that was it.
–Sage:
Oh gosh. Life on the road can. Get weird. So we’ll just leave it at that, right?
–Deonne: Kahler:
It gets pretty pretty. Yeah, it gets pretty weird.
–Sage:
Well, tell us about. Your creative journey. How did you come to be doing what you’re. Doing today.
–Deonne: Kahler:
So the music was my first creative love. I started singing as a little kid on stage right away in elementary school and went on to do that. As a musical theater kid. And then I got recruited out. Of that, to do that. Professionally into my 30s, but in high school. I got interested in photography and loved it, but. Then I don’t. Know it kind of took a back seat and so my mid 20s is really when. I kicked into. Gear with the freelance writing started publishing personal essay and then music professionally. So I had a band and all that, and then finally I moved to Taos. And I think I was just making images and I I posted something on Facebook. It was an image I made in the National Park. This acquaintance, who is a professional photographer, saw. It and he said because, you know, there’s. This contest going on right now. Have you thought about entering? What was the AAA Travel Photography contest? I had never considered it and I entered and I took third. That’s amazing.
–Sage:
Yeah, which was.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Pretty amazing. And so I thought you. Know, huh? That’s.
–Sage:
There might be something to.
–Deonne: Kahler:
This there might be something to this and so maybe. I should keep going. And so that. Was really it and I think that was in 2014. And so then I was on the road a lot and I was working in the parks a lot. But then I was also making other definitely less traditional work. I made some images out in California actually that made it into shows in like Brooklyn and LA and Portland OR and so really then I just started. Kind of just getting into juried shows and I won some awards and. I’ve just been kind of doing. It ever since.
–Sage:
Yeah, that’s great. So let’s get into our our subject matter a little bit. When we first talked about doing this podcast, you mentioned you’ve been advised to create a series or a well defined body of work. Can you tell us why you think that was suggested and what your initial thoughts have been?
–Deonne: Kahler:
Yeah, I think and that was someone I greatly admire. He’s a pretty famous photographer and he said that to me in a workshop. And I take his words seriously. I’ve been thinking about because I was. Pretty resistant at. First I was like what you mean and then? And one of his comments to me was, which is totally honest comment and he said he goes, you know, I like your work. He said, it’s very scattershot. Even though I have worked a lot in the parks and all this stuff, but still, I mean, the stuff that I post. On Instagram and. You know it’s it’s, I mean, I wouldn’t. Say it’s random, it’s not random. But it definitely. Is not themed. Specifically, and I think he was looking at me as a photographer who is, you know, should now focus on taking the work to the next level. And so he said, you know, it’s time. It’s time for you to start working in. Series and so. I started thinking about it. And you know all the greats, of course, like Dorothy. Lang, Robert. Frank, Stephen. You know all these great photographers. Worked in series. Yeah, you know, they did photo books that were themed and you know Alex Soth, I mean, he’s a great one. He works. On specific projects and they all do. And I think it’s important because for one thing, gives the work focus and clearer meaning. I think also, though I think a bigger, maybe even more important thing. Is it? It makes it easier for others. To identify your work, right? Which especially now is really important with this. You know, just the fire hose of images that we get every. Single day. That’s. True, you know we’re bombarded with so many images. That I think if you can sort of package to use a marketing term, package your work. It becomes much easier to become known which. For me, I don’t really care.
–Sage:
Right, yeah.
–Deonne: Kahler:
I really don’t. But I do want to have conversation. About the work. Like, that’s the way I mean, I don’t know about you, but that’s the reason I do it. I make this work to be in conversation with people. And so it’s definitely easier to do that if you can then have, like, a packaged. That you can then put out into the world, and as a writer, I equate it to writing publishing books. Right, right. So you’re not just randomly. I mean, you could you can be, you can be blogging, you can be. You know, doing all that stuff.
–Sage:
Sure, but if you put something together, whether it’s poetry or short stories or obviously a novel, you need to have some theme or thread that you’re pulling it all along on.
–Deonne: Kahler:
For sure. And I think it’s just, it’s easier to market and package it and then it’s easier. But I think on a less capitalistic viewpoint, it’s it’s just easier to. Share it publicly too. Like if you know if you. Have this project and you’re like hey. Guys I’ve completed this thing and here’s what it’s about. And if you’re interested in the subject matter, you know, share it with your friends and also. If you have a packaged product, you have way more options to share it. Because venues organizations like packaged work, because then they. Can pitch it to their. And also I’m just trying to, you know, share being a human on the planet and yeah, in all of art. I mean, there’s such comfort in something sparking something in. You that you’re like, oh, yeah, I get that or. That’s been my experience too.
–Sage:
Right. It’s a connection to the viewer, to the the people that you’re sharing your. Work with.
Speaker
It’s a.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Total connection and I mean that’s why I personally do it. So I think it was good advice and and also and then there is also the part about if you’re if you’re just sort of over the years. You know, generating work and and that’s of course important, but it’s also really satisfying to finish something. And I think that’s what he was saying to me was I think it’s time for you, Dion, to start doing that. It’s time for you to start conceptualizing project, which is a big thing. Yeah, building it. Finishing it, putting it out into the world and then moving on to the next thing. I think that’s it’s. I mean it’s it’s a lot. Of course, but I think it’s personally time for me to move on.
Speaker
See that?
–Sage:
So interesting. The episode before this one is dealing with the idea of whether you have a recognizable style and whether you do things very focused or randomly and. It interesting cause the conversation I had then it was just me. Was that you do what you do, whether it’s focused or random or whether. You’re trying to define a very identifiable style based on your goals. What it is that you want out of your creative career, what you want your art to be able to do for you, and it sounds to me like your primary goal has to do with communication and connection, and so you’re finding that this idea of a series or body of. Work would fulfill that. For you.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Yeah, I think that’s right. I mean, certainly I’m an artist, so I’m, you know, compelled to try to. Make good work. That’s, you know, either pleasing or interesting or it’s funny too, because you know, it’s like I said, I’m primarily working in landscape, but I would say thematically, overall the work tends to have a very stark or spare quality. I tend to be obsessed with, like, abandoned. Objects or places, emptiness, decrepitude. You know, I mean, yeah, I I was in. Therapy for years. I guess my ohh I I actually I’m not sure.
–Sage:
Question was going to be do you know why you lean towards that?
–Deonne: Kahler:
I’m not sure. I don’t even think. I don’t think I’ve ever asked myself that question. Well, I shouldn’t say that. I think part of it. To me, those places, it’s just a given that. There’s a story.
–Sage:
Right.
–Deonne: Kahler:
I made this image this. Is from a number of years. Ago, but people love. Well, they love. This image or they hate this image. I was in a bar and house and it was. Kind of a. Dark bar and. On the floor was this baby doll. And it was like lying in the middle of the floor, and I didn’t see any kids. And I managed to make an image of it where kind of all you see is this doll. And then you can see some barstools and there’s maybe some shadows. I love that image. Because it’s like, what the hell is going on here?
–Sage:
Right, exactly.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Like what? What has happened? And people are gonna find it terrifying, or they find it fascinating.
–Sage:
I could see both.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Yes, yes. Because on the one level, it’s really sad, it’s. Like, Oh my God. You know, talk about abandonment. I’m always drawn to the weird like the, you know, the random weird object like out of place. Like I haven’t even shared them yet, but I made all these images outside of the Badlands cause the Badlands was spectacular here. There was this close for the. Winter campground and I. Was obsessed with all these empty swing sets and. In fact, that launched. The second project, which is kind of an ongoing project where I photograph empty. Kid parks, OK? Because I love them and I love all the toys. But there’s no kids and.
–Sage:
Kind of waiting that the space is is there, you know, for the for the kids, but they’re not there yet. So they’re just it’s wait, it’s. In stasis, it is. It’s right, that’s.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Right, that Lynn has space and I think there’s something really poignant about empty places, you know.
–Sage:
Yeah, I’m with you on that. We could definitely do some Rd. trips together. And being obsessed with the same things.
–Deonne: Kahler:
So we will stock up on functions.
Speaker
We all stuck.
–Deonne: Kahler:
About funions. And get some funny.
–Sage:
Yeah, well, you know, I think there’s something we should do too. We’re talking about bodies of work in series and what not. And I wanted to define that for the audience, but there wasn’t really a concise definition. That can mean all the work done over a lifetime. It can mean a period of time. It can mean a specific chosen subject or. Aspect that the artist chooses to study and create from. So do you think you could define a body of work in the photography you’ve done to date based on one of those general definition?
–Deonne: Kahler:
Yeah, I think. So I mean, because now I think the. Body of work the way I. Would define it is your. Entire body of work today for me, really. I think the themes have been landscape. The parks for sure, with some early work that. I did, but then this kind. Of you know these empty places. I think that’s probably what I could say kind of a thread that runs through my work so.
–Sage:
Right. Yeah, that’s. Sounds good and it gives you a focus too. And I think that’s one of the things about being able to identify dominant things or things that you were drawn to. But if you don’t know what you’re looking for, if you don’t have some idea. The and to head out without a theme in mind without something to guide you would probably be pretty difficult to get success in your photographs very often, so do you head out with your camera looking for specific things at specific times, or do you just keep a camera on hand and when opportunity strikes you pull it out?
–Deonne: Kahler:
Yeah, that’s a really good question. I think back in the day, I did more just I had a camera around and I would just, you know, you wonder? And then you’re like, oh, that’s cool. That’s interesting. I actually have gotten more into scouting these days.
–Sage:
You want to explain explaining what that is or how you.
–Deonne: Kahler:
You wanna explain? So I. What that is so I can either be in a town I can be on the road, but I tend to be looking for actively looking for interesting vistas or objects or places and I will make notes so I have so many notebooks full. I mean it’ll literally be like, OK, exit 229.
–Sage:
Do yes.
–Deonne: Kahler:
On Hwy. 21 there’s a weird house. Yeah. That’s and that’s it. That’s my note. To me, it’s always. Like it’s like. A treasure hunt. I mean, you know you’re on. The road and. You’re like, look how what is that? But maybe you you have to be somewhere and. You can’t stop. Yeah, and so. Yeah, I mean, I have just notebooks. And notebooks full of stuff.
–Sage:
Yeah, I think that’s great. Like, even if you’re not a photographer, if there is places that inspire you, it would be good to make notes of those things so you can return to those spots. So have you started developing some kind of idea of a series that is themed?
–Deonne: Kahler:
So I was born on a farm in South Dakota and then my parents and I moved to LA when I was one. So I didn’t grow up on a farm. I grew up in San Diego. My best childhood memories are spending a couple of weeks in some of the summers as a kid on the farm that my mother grew up on, which is saying a lot because again, I. Didn’t even live there. So I don’t have any other great memories of.
–Sage:
Child in San.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Diego, which again therapy but.
–Sage:
I but I.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Do have these amazing memories of being on this farm. And being a kid and. And there was. Just this sort of unfettered sense of freedom and simplicity and all these wonderful things. And so anyway, so. There’s always, always, always stuck with me. And every time I come back to South Dakota, which hasn’t been a ton, my dad and I were estranged for 15 years. And so I didn’t see my parents a lot, but when I did come back to South Dakota and then. He and I eventually made peace with each other and thank goodness, and then he passed away. So that’s a real gift. But I would come back to South Dakota and in fact, that same farm is still in the family. But when I decided to come back here, I lived in a different house. I lived in my parents. And then this. This ranch. My dad had bought a year before he died.
–Sage:
Oh, OK.
–Deonne: Kahler:
And again my. Dad was like this Leviathan in my life. He was this super powerful dark shadow guy in my life. So I have lots of feelings about him, very mixed. He he bought this ranch. A year before he. Died and he loved it to me. And it was going to be his last great project when I realized that mom needed to move back into the big house and I wanted to move. Out here onto the ranch. I was so happy, and so I realized that I have really come. Full circle in a nutshell, I would say that it’s going to be a memoir specifically about this, about what it means to come back as an adult to your father’s ranch and all that came in between. That’s relevant to that. And it’s going to be photos and text. And I also think it’s going to be a really different take. It’s not going to be, you know, woman moves to rural Canada. And becomes a farmer. And I’m not ever going to farm this land. But that’s not gonna. That’s not gonna happen.
–Sage:
Let’s call it as it is, yeah.
–Deonne: Kahler:
So, I mean, I love I. You know, that’s. I mean, I love those stories. And I think there’s value. In them, but this is. Really a pretty different story. And so it’s about making peace with yourself. And it’s about finally I think coming to terms with who you are and your family. And what your legacy? So that when we talk about planning versus Pantsing, obviously that’s gonna be a planned project, because I’m gonna have to go through all the archives of photographs and make a ton of new work. To match the written narratives so you know it’s a real challenge for me because I’m used to just winging it and I’m not. Able to win this one so.
–Sage:
Yeah, but the thing about doing a series or a body of work is that you need to find your story. Yes, you know, like a lot of people, like, oh, I need to pick something that I like. OK. I’m gonna do Ravens because that’s what I’m into or whatever. But you can do the Ravens, but if you don’t understand the story behind it, what’s leading the theme? What’s allowing you to put it together in a string of ideas that will have something to say at the end? So it sounds like that’s what you’re that’s what you’re pursuing with this particular idea. And it seems very well develop.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Yeah. Thank you. Yes, I always say, you know, if you get. Any kind of skill set in. Any of the arts you can make. A pretty picture, right? Not to say there isn’t value in free pictures. We all need pretty pictures because they’re just nourishing. But I think at some point as an artist you have to go. OK, yeah, but what am I saying? What do you want to say?
–Sage:
Yeah, because if you just went along and just took pictures of Ravens all the time, you could have a bunch of great pictures of Ravens, but you missed the opportunity of being able to get that person to think about something a little deeper than these amazing creatures, right?
–Deonne: Kahler:
Maybe you consider you know the Raven. Is your spirit animal and you’re like. OK. But. Why right? Like why do you feel connected? To the Raven. I mean, there’s always. Go with it. But, but yes, I agree, I would say just go where the energy is. I think that’s also what’s big about this farm ranch project that I’m working on. I’ve been thinking about writing. A book about South Dakota. For decades, I think. I just didn’t know how. To approach it, because again. You can come at things so many different. Ways I don’t know. A couple good idea and I’m like I. Don’t know. I mean I, you know, I don’t. Think that’s that interesting? It’s been done before. And then but. This is so. Specifically personal, I think it’s taken me this long to land on how to approach the story of my father and I. Yeah, the story of this state of South. Dakota, you know, for, for and. What it means to me? Yeah, you know, those are those are big topics.
–Sage:
And it sounds like because you know your father passed away not that long ago. You’re living on this ranch that he purchased. There’s quite a lot of things that are coming together at a head or or or at the. Crossroads, at least.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Yeah, I think so.
–Sage:
Yeah, I think we pick a theme or should pick a theme or should consider choosing a series or body of work based on narrowing down what is talking to us right now. And yes, it’s very, very hard to choose from all the various things that we may have an interest in. But if you’re going. Spend a lot of time with something. One you want something that is going to hold your interest, but also it’s kind of. Ideal to be. Starting at the beginning of the exploration of that theme for yourself personally. So you being at I’m, I’m just guessing at this, but you being in a point in your life where your father’s no longer around and you’ve been through. And recent developments in understanding your relationship with him that it might be the ideal time to start this kind of thing because not only are you taking the viewer of your work on a journey, but you’re allowing yourself to take that journey and and discover things. Along the way. Well, yeah.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Oh, absolutely. Again, I write memoir, write personal, saving more.
–Sage:
Right.
–Deonne: Kahler:
And you have to be. Just brutally honest as a memoirist or it’s no good. Yeah, you know, you can’t sugarcoat anything.
–Sage:
That’s tough.
–Deonne: Kahler:
You can’t. It’s really tough. I mean, people talk. To me about it. And they’re like, I think I. Want to remember I’m.
–Sage:
Like, OK, well, you can’t. Just tell all the like shiny stories.
–Deonne: Kahler:
That’s all. I mean, it’s really heavy South and I. Think for me. Any of us with our relationships or any of our parents, either mother or father or both, you know, again, these are the defining. Relationships of our. Lives, and I think we all spend our whole life. Making sense of them. Because we are so our parents child. And so I think whether we like it or not and I think that’s what I’m finally getting to with Dad is like all people, he was very complicated.
–Sage:
Like it or not?
–Deonne: Kahler:
But he had a serious. Dark side and I had that same dark side. I mean, that’s not news necessarily to me. I’m not, you know, I’m comfortable with that. That’s fine. Yeah, I think now. With the frame. Of place. Land of land, which is really what? I’m going into this. With I can. Explore this idea of being my father’s daughter and what that means for me and the world now. And making peace with it. To me, any story. You have to have place.
–Sage:
Right where we live in a physical world, and even if you’re writing and you don’t have to be, visual place is a grounding for the person you’re communicating to.
–Deonne: Kahler:
It is and. I think that. Idea of A-frame is really, really important for any artistic endeavor like, but you know if you can figure out what the frame is for this thing that you’re obsessed with, you know, then you can really drill down, be specific, which is to me, always makes for much better work.
–Sage:
Now, if you don’t have that obsession or that interest that that is driving you continuously, it’s going to be hard for you to frame it. Have you had times in your creative life that you just did not have a framework to work off of? And how did you go from that point to finding that grounding in A-frame or specific interest?
–Deonne: Kahler:
I’ve always kind of followed the energy. I’ve always kind of gone where my interest led me, whether we’re better or worse. No one you know. You can’t say no to me. Like you just. Don’t do that. Because I’m just like, well, forget it. I’m doing it anyway. I’m doing it. Anyway, so I think with. The work with the creative. Work. I’ve always been you. Know we’re, you know, we’re curious beings, right? And I’ve always been curious, and I’ve always been drawn to things like. I’m sure all artists and. So I think I’ve always been pretty good at. Noticing that noticing.
–Sage:
Identifying and following.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Yeah, I think that’s maybe one of my little my inherent skills is I’m good at.
–Sage:
Your superpowers.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Yep, when my superpower. So you start working on something. Say you’re making photographs, you know, say you’ve made 100. Photographs you’re like, huh? 60 of them include. Ravens, right?
–Sage:
Now what?
–Deonne: Kahler:
Whatever it is, you know what I mean? Like you notice you go. OK, that’s interesting. I didn’t plan on that.
–Sage:
Right.
–Deonne: Kahler:
But why do all my images suddenly have Ravens in them? And then you go oh, huh. OK. Maybe I’m interested in Ravens.
–Sage:
Interesting to analyze your own work and see the theme rather than figure out the theme and then try to. Fulfill it.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Yeah, I’ve never been good at that. I don’t know people and maybe they people.
–Sage:
Are are you good at that scene? I definitely look back. And then? Find it. I love the. Discovery of the unknown in myself. So going back and looking at the work I’ve done and said, Oh my goodness, I keep doing like I lived in New Mexico as well. I lived in Albuquerque for a few years and I was constantly taking pictures of the sky and I knew I loved the huge sky, but I couldn’t quite put my finger on the feeling of why until I realized that I always had some tiny little image in the photographs I took or. The poems I write, we’re always talking about some small thing within this bigger frame. And then I realize I love the feeling of being small in a big, amazing space.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Yeah, yeah.
–Sage:
It just it just makes me, I don’t know, appreciate it better and put me in a place of I don’t have to worry about things so much. Nothing’s that big a deal, you know, and I just love that feeling of.
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
–Sage:
Being small so. But it took me a while of doing this work while I was out there in New Mexico to realize that that was the thing that I was. Talked to and that’s actually.
–Deonne: Kahler:
How the Kid Park Project was born? Because I.
Speaker
Did like a.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Cross country tour in the van and I was ostensibly looking for historical sites and National Park historical sites. And I was looking. A lot of like civil rights sites and. Stuff like that and then I. Would notice that the end of the day or at the. End of the. Week say there were all these images of empty. Kid parks. Showing up and I was like, what the, what’s how they get in there? And so anyway, it’s just funny, you know. How your subconscious is like tap. Tap tap like hey. Pay attention to this.
–Sage:
Yeah, well, I did some note taking got online and looked at what other people were talking about in terms of what you would do to start a series or get a more refined and narrowed body of work. And so I thought maybe we could go through some of the ideas that I found and and see if you’ve hit that and what you think of it. And if we have some points to make about what works and what doesn’t work for at least our experiences. So, OK, one of the first things and the most common guideline was to obviously find a theme that will sustain your interest to choose. Something that’s specific or personal, but open to variation. And then not to base your Arts series on something too general or. Broad and then whatever theme you choose, don’t imitate someone else. And you had a phrase and I forgot what you had said, but my phrase for knowing that, that’s that thing that’s gonna hold my interest is that I feel like my muse is humming. Or singing that my muse is like, ohh, happy.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Oh, nice.
–Sage:
And just like you’re gonna, you know, not just like.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Yeah, I love that.
–Sage:
Oh, that’s really. Cool and or. You know, you saw someone else do something really cool with it, and that makes you want to do something cool like that. That’s not the same thing. Yes, I would have loved to have been the person who created that wonderful piece that I just saw. But unless my muse is going, ooh, this is so cool. Let’s go check this out. Let’s go explore it. Let’s go see what’s happening. Let’s see what we can come up with. I don’t think I have. Enough interest in it. So that’s the way I find my interest. How do you think you find your interest? You did say something about that.
–Deonne: Kahler:
I mean again, I go where the energy is. And again, if I keep coming back to something repeatedly, then you know, at least you need to look. At it. And then you can do all that thought work.
–Sage:
That another thing that popped up a. Lot and actually surprised me was. To do research, you know, brainstorm your area of interest. Of course, the library to fill in gaps in your knowledge, conduct primary source research which is taking photos and conducting interviews, doing sketches, build up a varied and high quality stock of reference materials, which is photographers would definitely do that.
Speaker
OK.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Right.
Speaker
Right.
–Sage:
At least I do. Yeah, I like reference materials.
–Deonne: Kahler:
No, I I do too.
Speaker
I like books.
–Sage:
Don’t rely too heavily on the Internet and try to do things first hand so you are out there observing in the most unique and interesting way you can and then to give yourself an adequate research period that there should be a period of time through which you are not actually working on the theme so much as developing the idea. What do you? Think about research in terms of your developing. Yeah, that’s really interesting, I do think.
–Deonne: Kahler:
There’s value in that, it just kind. Of gives you more of a framework, right? And it also. Might trigger ideas like. Ohh I didn’t. Know acts about this place.
–Sage:
Right, that’s a great point.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Well, that’s interesting because that kind of parallels my experience. You know, so I think there’s real value in doing research kind of like raises the the bar for what you have to work with. In terms of raw material?
–Sage:
And understand the further understanding of your subject matter. So like, say, let’s go back to Ravens cause for some reason that came up. We’ll just stick with it. If you’re gonna do a series on Ravens, maybe you do research more on understanding the bird and its environments and its mannerisms and just the background of our interaction. You know, as humans. With Ravens or any of that kind of stuff could bring them a lot of additional and more subtle parts of the theme that you’re. Looking at.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Well, and Ravens, you picked a really rich subject because Ravens throughout. All the time have been an iconic animal.
–Sage:
Right.
–Deonne: Kahler:
I mean, for the Native Americans, I mean, it has huge cultural and spiritual history.
–Sage:
It’d be very symbolic.
–Deonne: Kahler:
So yeah, I mean, so you’re gonna pick an animal like that, you better spend. A lot of time in the future because.
–Sage:
There’s probably a lot of stuff to research on there too, yeah.
–Deonne: Kahler:
I mean, seriously, that’s like, if you were obsessed with, like, cool. So, you know, any of those really super iconic now, maybe if you’re gonna do like, I don’t know the wombat, I don’t know. Mean maybe there’s a? Lot of history on the wombat but.
–Sage:
I bet there’s. I bet there’s a bunch from.
–Deonne: Kahler:
I bet there is too. And they’re so cute. But you know. Yeah, no, it’s. I think they’re I. Think it just kind of raises the bar for your projects. I feel like it just really fills in some gaps and and and. Again, I think it could spark some ideas.
–Sage:
And also once you get through the research, you would probably also understand your level of interest in it. So you may be like I’m, you know, I’m researching all this stuff, but yeah, it’s not really jiving. It’s not really grabbing me as much as I thought it would. So it’s maybe a filter before. You get into it so. Yeah, yeah. And then another thing was to have a theme you need to have some limitations. Set rules and parameters for your theme. Have a unifying element to clarify the aim of your series. Make your rules. Simple and easy to fix. You sell some element of freedom, so you. Don’t feel overly. Restricted and then don’t repeat the same scene or item with little or no variations. If you’re going to tell a story or anything, you need to show change, and so the different things that you’re gonna be doing in your theme, you need to show some progress, right? Whether it’s from the beginning of your exploration to the end of the exploration or in the. Process of telling the story. Or whatnot and and with what you’re looking at doing. Obviously a story. Have you set rules or parameters to give yourself enough restriction to keep you focused, or have you left it kind of open at this point?
–Deonne: Kahler:
You know, I’ve been running for so long and and you have two. And so I think we get very good the longer we do this at setting parameters. You have to. Especially if you’re a freelance writer. I mean, you have to really get down to it. Also, as a memoirist, you know, you can’t just write about your whole life because then it’s an autobiography. And most of us aren’t interesting enough to. Write autobiographies and that’s. Just, you know, unless you’re like Ruth Bader Ginsburg or some, you know, somebody else, then you know, sure. So you have to narrow it down. And also you said about. Change. Yeah, storytelling 101 is certainly every chapter. Or every scene. Or every conversation.
Speaker
Has to move.
–Deonne: Kahler:
The story forward, at least a little bit. It just has to or else cut. With this memoir project, it’s about me and Dad. It’s not really about Mom. She’s not going to be a major character. In this story. Even though she and I are very close, but it’s really about Dad and I. It’s really specifically about the state of South Dakota. It’s really specifically about. Living on the land and as far as. I know those three things. They’re about as specific as. I’ve gotten, but that’s pretty specific.
–Sage:
Yeah, I would think so too. Of course, each of us as individuals will have to feel it out like is it’s specific enough to keep me kind of like singularly focused or is it overly restrictive, right? Like you could feel. It out and go. If I only talk about South Dakota, it’s not going to express some of the part of the relationship that was in California and that may be too restrictive for you. So I think it’s really. Individual judges to how restrictive it’s it’s going to feel for you.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Yeah, exactly. And I think when I say that, I mean those are gonna. Be the major markers. So yeah, of course you can stray. You can stray off course for, you know, and go on a tangent, or if it’s relevant.
–Sage:
Right.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Yeah, you you kind of have to. And especially because. Well, for me, I’ve now been here since. 2019 the fall. I have literally only lived in the state of South Dakota for 4 1/2 years of my entire life.
–Sage:
Totally, yeah.
–Deonne: Kahler:
So that’s really small. Yeah, yeah. Which is kind of great because then I can’t. Just run all. The places I can’t go.
Speaker
That’s true.
–Deonne: Kahler:
When I lived in, blah, blah, blah, you know, it’s like you can’t do that. I mean, you know, this is. A memoir so it. Has to be true story, so I can’t.
–Sage:
Right.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Make stuff up. Just to have it fit the story it has. To be actually what happened.
–Sage:
Ideally, yeah.
–Deonne: Kahler:
So it is going to be a big challenge and I do want to complete this project. I don’t want to, you know, write this in 10 years. I want to write it now because I think I can. I think I’ve got good closure like. I don’t think I need to do more experience more for this story to have an ending.
–Sage:
Right. You’ve gone through what you need to go through the stories. There, it’s just. You finding the particulars on how to tell it.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Exactly. In fact, I. Think the more. You can niche it down. The better because you can always add stuff back.
–Sage:
And then the caveat to not being too restricted or not letting yourself wander is that I think always in the process of art, you need to be open to those surprise things and you could get into something that you think the theme is this. You know, when I write stories, especially short stories, even poetry, you’re writing something and it’s not that long. And you think you know what you’re doing. You think you know where you’re going. Halfway through, you realize you’re really talking about something else, and you want to leave yourself the room to go explore that, and so you need to have that flexibility, I think as well. So the last guideline I found is working out the process of developing a series. So there was one piece of advice which was mentioned over and over again. Work on several pieces at the same time, so I guess talking to painters or anyone who has to develop their work work on several pieces at the same time. It can help in the exploration. And supports selling the work as you create, so if you have a series that takes a long time like you work on a series for a number of years, you have something to sell. There you go. So that was one of the recommendations.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Right. Yeah, that makes sense.
–Sage:
Also part of the process is to work on a schedule, and I think that’s true of anything that you’re doing. If you can set a schedule or set some some deadlines and some time frames to work in to keep you on track, and also if you work on a schedule on a regular basis like you’re working on it at least three days a week and you have those days picked out, it’s going to kind of. Keep it on the top of your mind and then your mind can work. In the background on. The ideas that you’re working on and and come up with things even when you’re not working on. Pieces and then lastly to share your progress reports with those who will make you feel accountable because doing a series could be a long haul and you may need somebody to keep cheering for you and for you to answer to so you can keep keep motivated. Do you have a process that you feel that you would set up in order to get you into the series through the series? And to the.
–Deonne: Kahler:
The line. I do think there’s definitely something about certainly schedule have some kind of a schedule and accountability. Is so tricky too, because I’m. Sure you’ve experienced this. You know we’re artists with. Such tender little hearts and. It’s, you know, it’s so scary for us. To let the work. Out and potentially get criticized or judged or whatever someone level what I. Want to say is. There’s huge value in sort of announcing it to the world where that looks like announcing, you know, to maybe three people or three artists that are free. Yours, you know you’re saying? I’m working on this thing now.
–Sage:
All right.
–Deonne: Kahler:
And you say to them, OK, now you need to check in with me, because if I don’t say anything for a week or two, you need to go. Hey Deon, what’s happening? Like, have you been working? On this, what’s going on? You know, make it. Seem as real and. Legit as you can in.
–Sage:
Right, yeah.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Whatever way that. Means to you, you know, make it. Seem like you know, this is my day job now. I am here to work on this series on this project. And of course, you know, we always have other. Things going on, but. Just to put it that way, like front and center, this is the most important thing that I’m doing these days and I’m going to see it through. Maybe put kind of a, you know, soft deadline on it and really make sure you’ve got some people, even if it’s two, yeah, who are going to care whether you’re working or not.
–Sage:
Alright, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And and if it can be somebody who is creative or working in the same medium or something relatable, because you can really cheer each other on and the energy from those conversations. I have two writers groups, I don’t have an artist. About here anymore, but I’m part of the various artist communities, particularly polymer, and just being able to have those conversations is so energizing. And so, I mean, talk about focusing and if you’ve got those kinds of people to talk to, you’re never gonna be short of new fodder for your work and for keeping you motivated.
–Deonne: Kahler:
That’s right. If you can create that yourself in any tiny way or find it, you know if it exists, find it and join. In because it is. So energizing and I love that you’re doing this podcast and I’m. I’m so grateful to be. On the show and I knew we would. Have a great conversation and. Super inspiring and energizing for me, so thank you.
–Sage:
Yeah, now it it has been great and and maybe on that note, we should start to wind up, but I’ll just summarize what we were talking about in terms of the guidelines that were recommended. If you’re going to do a series, find a theme that will sustain your interest. Do the research so you know what you’re getting into. Set rules and parameters that you can work with to keep you focused and but also give yourself room to meander as needed. And develop a process that’s going to make you successful. Whatever version of success that you have defined for yourself. So that said, Diana, is there any last things that you wanted to tell us about that I. Didn’t get to cover.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Gosh, no, I don’t think so. I I think we’ve, we’ve covered a lot and it’s been really fun. Yeah, well, why don’t you tell us where people can find your work? Oh, absolutely. I have a website that is way fully out of date. It’s my name, Deon taylor.com and I’m on social. I’m on Instagram and Facebook.
–Sage:
And you just spell your name out. Since we’re audio, first name is DEONNE last. Name KA. HLER.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Yes, correct. Thank you.
–Sage:
OK. And then we’ll have links in the show notes and and such as well, so. OK, great. Well, thanks so much for joining me on. This was a fantastic conversation. I just my brain is just I gotta go make notes. I gotta go get sketchbooks and make notes and.
Speaker
Me too.
–Sage:
I gotta go and maybe get some funny ones.
Speaker
Me too. Me too.
–Sage:
Oh, no. So but loved having you on here. Talk again soon. Thank you so much for sharing. With the audience.
–Deonne: Kahler:
Oh no, it’s been a lot of. Fun Sage, thank you so much.
–Sage:
So wow, that was a lot of food.
–Deonne: Kahler:
For thought, right?
–Sage:
Are you now thinking about creating a series or at? Least exploring the idea. Can you identify recurring themes in your work, and if so, might you consider putting together a collection of the pieces or designs? You have and. Or develop more work under that theme. It could jump start a goal to pitch in your own gallery, show or give you better focus in your selling strategy. If you sell. I just think getting to know and understand your artistic self through the kind of consideration. And deep dives, a series pushes you to. Explore could be so informative and energizing for.
–Deonne: Kahler:
All of us.
–Sage:
Even if doing a series isn’t something that you. Before, I would love to hear. Your thoughts on that, or even take questions on the subject if you need. If you’d like to do that or want to offer commentary or criticism or whatever, I’d love to hear it. You can reach out on the website at www.thesagearts.com. Just go to the contact page and as you know, some comments work through way into future. Podcast, so it’s also your chance for a fun little shout out and your insights are also an opportunity to help feed the muses of your fellow crew. And as mentioned at the beginning, if you’re enjoying these episodes and finding value in what I’m doing here, consider giving back by going to the sagearts.com website. We’re halfway down the homepage. You’ll find buying me a coffee and PayPal donation buttons. Also, don’t forget to hit the follow button on your podcast player so you don’t miss an episode and follow on social media, on Facebook or Instagram. Under the Sage Arts Podcast, if you want help, spread the word, hit that share button on those posts, or you’re welcome to grab the images and repost them. So other creatives that might be needing this kind of conversation can better. Find us. In the meantime, go out and look for those hidden themes of yours. Feed your muse with new experiences, especially Rd. trips and funions. Right. And be true to your weirdness. Join me again next week on the Sage Arts Podcast.
