As creatives, we sometimes go through periods where we lack motivation or question our purpose to the extent that it is difficult to work. Why does this happen and are there things we can do to avoid it? Or is it something that actually needs to be avoided?
I bring Brett (and both the dogs) into the studio with me this week to talk about these difficult periods of malaise and ennui and other things the French are so good at naming. We go through some of the common causes, ways to combat it, and one possible attitude tweek that can make these periods more than just something we have to tolerate.
Other Resources mentioned:
Screen Zen (screen time controller) www.screenzen.co/
Sullivan’s Travels (movie) www.imdb.com/title/tt0034240/
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CREDITS:
Cover design by Sage; Illustration by Olga Kostenko
Image: No Release, pastel and charchol by Sage Bray Varon
Music by Playsound
Transcript:
–AI transcribed, unedited. Please excuse the copious errors.–
Brett–
Even though I love going in and going through the process, but why at the end of it, like I finished the thing and I say, OK, I did this and I’m not going to sell it. I guess I could.
Sage–
Yeah.
Brett–
Post it on Instagram and share it with your friends you know.
Sage–
Yeah. So you. Can still get it out there, but it’s still like what is the end goal?
Brett–
What is the annual exactly?
Sage–
Yeah. Hello all my lovely persistent creatives out there. Thank you for joining me on the Sage Arts podcast. This is sage and I am not alone this time I am in a actually very full room. Rivers on the lounge with Brett. Amber, it was, but she got tired of the puppy. She’s not really into the puppy, so she’s under the desk, so we’ll see. We wanted to do this for a while, but it’s been really hard with the puppy. She really hasn’t been able to be. Out of her crate. It’s for a long time sentenced to her cage. Poor thing. Yeah, well, your leg feels so. Yeah, so I thought we’d bring bread in today and see if we see if.
Brett–
To jail? Yeah. While her little leg.
Sage–
We can manage it. With the two dog, that’ll be an adventure. Yeah, it might have more background noise than usual. We’ll see what we can work with. So.
Brett–
We’ll tolerate it. Oh my God.
Sage–
We will. You just know that we’re surrounded by puppies. In any case. We thought we’d come together today and talk about something that came up actually with a couple of other creative friends of ours. Just and it was about kind of about motivation, but really about the the like the kind of when you hit bottom kind of thing when you just are wondering why, why are you doing this art? Why are you bothering with it? And we thought we’d kind of exchange some stories, but I guess first of all, Brett. Why bother? Ohh.
Brett–
Ohh bother. Ohh bother. That’s one of the. Ohh I.
Sage–
Ohh, bother bother. Why bother? Why? Do you bother? Why do you do art?
Brett–
I don’t know. I have no idea. It’s a drive, I suppose. And I I just keep going going in, but there are times when it’s it’s really hard and I think my idea of what it meant to be creative when I was really young is very different as as I’ve, you know, gotten older.
Sage–
Yeah.
Brett–
So that’s been something I’ve had to digest over over the years and and it’s sometimes demotivating cause it doesn’t feel as like wow as as cool as it as you think you know the glory of it.
Sage–
Yeah.
Brett–
Is and it’s really just the work like your last podcast, you know.
Sage–
Yeah, the hard work stuff. Yeah, I I think I really think the last podcast is me preaching to myself because we’ll talk about like, what my issue is with the whole like, sense of, like sometimes why am I trying so hard? Why am I working so hard? But I sometimes I think we have a bit of a dichotomy with this particular issue.
Brett–
Mm-hmm. That’s it, yeah.
Sage–
That you and I experience with these kind of like rock bottom positions that we get into or situations that we get into I’ve had.
Brett–
Yeah.
Sage–
There’s a lot of instances, especially lately where I have really been questioning why I’m doing what I’m doing, because a lot of what I do right now is very hard. We have a lot of stuff going on. It’s it’s very hard to concentrate sometimes and to get into a routine because between the dog and the house and and whatever else we have family stuff going on it.
Brett–
Life gets in the way.
Sage–
Oh my gosh, it certainly does. So when I do sit down to try to work on my painting, I just sometimes I’m like. Not bothering number one, I’m gonna get interrupted again.
Brett–
Yeah. Well, there with painting, there’s so much setup for you, right? So it’s hard to.
Sage–
Yeah, it it’s hard to. Do. Yeah, it’s hard to do. Just kind of. Off the cuff stuff. So.
Brett–
Because you might get interrupted during your setup and then you have to unset it up.
Sage–
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I’ve done set it up. I’ve had times in my life where I do really question why I’m doing. It. Why am I trying to make a living as an artist? That’s really, really hard. I’m never going to get. Rich, I’m never. Going to get ahead, you know? But you know, I that’s actually a big reason why I ended up doing the magazine cause I was like, do I want to continue to do shows and to sell? One thing at a time. And I was looking for something that could combine both of my interests, both art and writing, and and going into magazine and publishing was my answer.
Brett–
Yeah.
Sage–
So it’s a.
Brett–
Let’s see.
Sage–
Matter of getting to know yourself. But there were times where I was like, why am I doing this? There were times when I was doing the magazine where I’m like, why am I doing this? Oh gosh, I get no sleep, but I. I had a passion for it.
Brett–
Yeah. And it wasn’t. So it wasn’t clearly not about the money for you or about being famous, but you wanted enough of a rapport with an audience so you could.
Sage–
I kept going. It was never. No. It’s never about. The money, right?
Brett–
It compensated for it, so it was viable and your time wouldn’t get stolen by whatever waiting tables or wherever it would be, yeah.
Sage–
Whatever else? Yeah. So. So I’ve gone. I’ve had kind of a ups and downs throughout my life, and I think for you, I mean, you have always had an identity as an artist.
Brett–
In terms of the dog or me. Yeah. Sorry I’m being silly. OK. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I’ve had a very, I think, unusual path in so much that I’ve always known what I want.
Sage–
Well, that this, this dog has this definite identity, but it’s not about being artists.
Brett–
To do and I was lucky in in the fact that I got to go to school for it and I fit into the professional context of it, you know.
Sage–
Yeah, yeah, you’re. I mean, lucky to have the talent that you have and to have a art form that gets paid and gets paid. Well, you know, I mean, it’s.
Brett–
Yeah. And it’s timing and context because there was a time that it was.
Sage–
Wonderful that, yeah.
Brett–
It wasn’t so easy to work and I work in animation, you know? So it wasn’t so easy to get a job in animation. You know, it’s still not easy and it’s still, yeah, it’s true.
Sage–
Well, it’s and that’s true now, right?
Brett–
Right now, actually, yeah.
Sage–
Right now, it’s particularly hard at this at this time. Aside from your professional career, which has been fantastic that you get to do something that you love for a living and you know do well, but you have your own personal.
Brett–
Yeah. Work. Yeah. I as a kid, you know? Since I was about, I don’t know, since I could hold a pencil, I guess you. Say you know 4567, I would do comics and there was never a sense of why bother or why should I be doing this. So I said most of my childhood and teenage years doing that. And then when I got into being a professional. Artist. What I got handed to me and I didn’t even realize it was the idea of having a deadline. Like, OK, here’s what you gotta do and you gotta do it by this date. Cause of course, there’s money on the line for the studio and all that. So. And I liked it. I didn’t know I liked it. I just did it because I got to do this by this time.
Sage–
Yeah.
Brett–
Yeah.
Brett–
But it is motivating whether you like it or not it it gets you to produce, you know. And I don’t understand the psychology of that until now that I’m older, I can see it. So then when I do my own work now I’m, you know, I am persevering and I’m doing it but it there’s a different motivation involved. You know when I don’t have a deadline.
Sage–
Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Brett–
Outside of myself.
Sage–
Yeah, but you’ve gone back and forth on some of the art forms that you have wanted to do. And some of them like going in and doing your own cartoons, you’ve kind of done a why bother with some of that stuff, right? Because it’s like the the whole process and what you would have to do with it, you’d have to find a team. You’d have to find publication. You’d have to find all these things that you’re not used to having to find.
Brett–
You know, and I also had some, you know, learning curves that you know, I would have to go through. I don’t necessarily like to do the PR in the business. I just, I just want to go and and do it, you know and not really be done. The right word is told what to do, but I like to to uncover it for myself.
Sage–
Yeah. No, I understand. I don’t like it either. But yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Brett–
Whatever it is, whatever those challenges. Are when I engage my own work, I have all these story ideas and also just art that I like to produce in my sketchbooks and and other other ways painting oil, painting and sometimes abstract and things that I I like to feel free within. You know that all works, but there’s less pressure involved. Even though I love going in and. Going through the. Process but. Why at the end of it like I finished the thing and I say, OK, I did this and.
Sage–
Yeah.
Brett–
I’m not going to sell it. I guess I could post it on Instagram and share with your. Friends, you know like.
Sage–
Yeah. So you can still get it out there, but it’s still like what is the? End goal, yeah.
Brett–
What is the end goal exactly? It feels a little bit like if you’re goal oriented and especially in our culture with capitalism and the way it works and what are you going to do with it. You know, what kind of, what kind of impact are you know, because I’ve been thinking about impact lately. What? What can I do?
Sage–
Yeah. What are what are you gonna do with it? Yeah. Yeah.
Brett–
With this, this love that I have for it. And how can I share it in a way that is productive and people would get something out of it?
Sage–
Yeah. Has an effect on people. Yeah. Yeah, because, I mean, you have that with your professional work and you have, you know, professed that one of the reasons you do it, it’s just to make people smile and make people laugh. And you get that and, you know, you get that.
Brett–
Yeah. Yeah. I I do what I love and it makes myself laugh. But when I think of the people who watch it, it is very motivating to think of the fun. That they have.
Sage–
Right. It’s a wonderful thing to be able to affect people, and some people might think that ohh cartoons aren’t serious art or whatever, but they do have a serious effect.
Brett–
That you’re enjoyed, I mean.
Sage–
In fact, we watched a movie. What was that movie? The one where the guy at the end and it ended up on a chain gang and then he realized that the only thing that chain gang people had was when they went and saw. A movie at the church.
Brett–
Oh, you’re talking about the Preston Sturgis movie called Sullivan’s travels.
Sage–
Silence travels. That’s right. So that I don’t know. This is an older movie. We love black and whites and on. Sundays. This is kind of a thing that we do.
Brett–
Even in this movie Sullivan’s travels there was about struggle and hardship. And this Hollywood producer is like, doesn’t know anything about those things, cause he’s very rich and very successful.
Sage–
Right. So yeah.
Brett–
So he decides to leave all of his riches and live in a different way on the streets, yeah.
Sage–
There’s like a like a button. Yeah, there’s, like, a hobo, actually, is what it was. Yeah. And he kept thinking, you need to make a serious move because that would give value to what he was doing. But then at the end, he ends up on this chain gang as a hard labor prisoner. Yeah, accidentally.
Brett–
And back in. Those days you called it a hobo. He wanted to make a difference. Interesting idea. Accidentally. He actually ends up. Really, having we wasn’t supposed to. He was.
Sage–
Supposed to be done with it then.
Brett–
We’re gonna spoil.
Sage–
He ends up with it.
Brett–
It for everybody. But yeah, go see it.
Sage–
Well, but I wanted to understand that at the end of it, the changing goes to this little church. Who’s doing a film doing films, cartoons.
Brett–
Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. This shows this is the 40s. So they showed an old Mickey Mouse cartoon, right. And what kind of joy it gave all of these these people on the chain game.
Sage–
We’re doing cartoons. That’s right. All. Everybody’s laughing and having a great time, and that was like the only thing they got. And he sat there thinking, Oh my God. This is this matters to people. I just like how it pointed out that you don’t have to do serious or fine art for it to enrich someones life so it and that’s an important thing and it’s actually we’re kind of probably getting ahead of ourselves.
Brett–
Yeah.
Sage–
That that a lot of what we do, we don’t see the effect necessarily. We put our art out there and we don’t get the feedback, we don’t.
Brett–
Get don’t get the visceral reaction.
Sage–
Get. Get the. Yeah. Now, if you do art shows, we’re just something I didn’t like to do. But when I did do art shows or I was at art shows and I could talk to people and I could stand off to the side. At the in the gallery room and hear people react to my work. Which is like the most amazing thing, cause most of the time you don’t get to hear anything or you hear from family or friends or people who are going to be kind of, you know, rooting for you anyways and cheer you on. But we don’t always get the feedback which is, which is a bit of an issue because now we go to social media and we try to get all the likes and we get.
Brett–
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Sage–
All those comments on there.
Brett–
And it’s so easy right there in our hand. That’s where we get feedback and where we get our audience.
Brett–
So.
Sage–
Yeah. Which is great on one hand because we. Do get feedback. But there’s so many downfalls as well. So what? Let’s actually, because that’s gonna kind of be a a little bit of a chunk of what we’re gonna.
Brett–
There are.
Sage–
Talk about so we thought, OK, when we do get to a point where we’re really questioning what we’re doing when that happens, why are we feeling that way? Why is it that we get to that point, you know? So we came up with the list and we go through the list really quickly, and then we’re gonna kind of go through each point, kind of talk about maybe what happens and what we can do about it. We came up with one, comparing ourselves to others on social media, which is a big one these days, right? Yeah, it can also come from ingrained expectations. Like we should make money at it or get awards or get accolades and believe that we should be seeing something from it. That is, that’s measurable.
Brett–
Like a success marker, there’s nothing.
Sage–
Yeah, right. Exactly. We could have frustrations with the skill that we have or that it’s hard like what I’m dealing with right now trying to get back into it, but not not having the routine to actually get a practice going. But it’s hard and sometimes you just want to give up. There’s also being like just not sure of what to create and lacking inspiration. And why is that? Why? Why do we sometimes just feel like we don’t have anything to say? There’s also times when we’re just not excited by our materials anymore. Like we just don’t enjoy it. Maybe it feels like work, or maybe it just isn’t a challenge any longer. Also, you know, honestly, there are outside situations that often affect our ability. To see our art as valuable as it is, and it could be, you know, things like grief, depression, we have health issues or even just lack of new input because we’re not getting out there and feeding our muse when we’re busy like we’ve been. So those are the primary things we came out with. I had this other thought.
Brett–
Oh.
Sage–
And I’m not going to talk about it now, but at the end, I want to talk about something that isn’t about solving these issues that I.
Brett–
All right. Oh, I see.
Sage–
Think may actually. I think might actually be like like how we see it. So in any case, so listen to the end and then you know let me know what you think. If you are at that point where you’re not feeling like you can find the value in what you’re doing. Look at why, first of all, so if you can spend time figuring out why you’re in that position and then also what you need from your artwork, you know like.
Brett–
And that changes over time, yeah.
Sage–
It it does for me. It’s usually the experience I want the experience. That’s why I’m doing it. That’s primarily what I need from it. I just need the process. I need to go through the process. I need to go through the journey and have the experience of creating. That’s the most important thing to me. But there’s a problem these days and we can start with the first thing on that list was the social media. Stuff. It can be really hard to spend time on social media and look at everything else that other people are doing and you see all these amazing things that people are doing and you just start to feel like.
Brett–
I mean it can inspire you. On the one hand, on the other hand.
Sage–
It could. It can make you feel. Like you suck can make you feel.
Brett–
Like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sage–
Like I I’m not good or I’m not that good or I’ll never be that good or whatever it is and compare, yeah.
Brett–
Yeah, compare, compare, compare. Yeah. And every post is how wonderful their life is. It’s not that their life. Isn’t wonderful.
Sage–
But it’s a limited view.
Brett–
But they’re very limited. Sliver. That’s all we get to see is.
Sage–
Of their lives.
Brett–
Is this peak you know, with artwork? It’s a similar thing. Those those might just be tiny little, you know, big peaks trying to do them and yeah.
Sage–
Those are the best of the things that they do, but how often do they? Do they? Do they have things that don’t work out? I mean, people rarely show the stuff that sucks.
Brett–
And how much time it takes to to get to that final piece or?
Sage–
Yeah, understanding what goes into it and you know all the struggles that. Came in before it.
Brett–
All the interruptions, all the, and then to the artist that maybe doesn’t feel that good to make you know it. It may end up looking.
Sage–
No.
Brett–
To our eyes. Like wow, you know, that’s amazing.
Sage–
But they see every every flaw. I remember talking to Jeffrey Lloyd Dever, and I don’t know how many of you know who he is, but he’s in museums. He’s is this high end polymer mix. You don’t know polymer, mixed media guy and his stuff looks like the most perfectly finished pieces you’ve ever seen. And we’re standing talking to him.
Brett–
I don’t know. Close.
Sage–
That’s every scene museum in Wisconsin. And and I was telling you, like, just how you know how perfectly he finished his work is it just amazes me and he’s like you, you don’t understand. There are flaws all over. That thing I’m like, wait.
Brett–
Mm-hmm.
Sage–
He’s like ohh. Like I can see them from here. And I’m like I don’t see them, you know? So we see things differently than other people. See our work as well. So we can also be very hard. In ourselves, especially when we’re looking at other people’s work, that looks so. Perfect. Not realizing that we’re so close up on our work that our idea of our work can be very different than what the outside world would see or how how other.
Brett–
Yeah.
Sage–
People would see.
Brett–
Good way to put it, yeah.
Sage–
So, but I think the biggest problem with social media is if you spend a lot of time on it, you’re thinking, I mean, so many people are on there.
Brett–
It’s just like an ocean. What is an ocean? It’s like, yeah, I think of, well, better than an ocean. I always think of, like, a sandy beach, you know, each grain of sand. You look like you’re walking on it.
Sage–
Right.
Brett–
And each grain of sand is an artist. Let’s say, you know, there’s.
Sage–
Amazing work. You’re like Jesus.
Brett–
So and you can go miles and you. Can you know? It feels like. It just doesn’t end.
Sage–
And and where are you in that and where are you in that you feel like you’re just buried under all those people like I?
Brett–
Exactly. It makes you feel. But why do we feel small? You know? Should we have this sense of being aggrandized and big? Is that? Is that why we do it? Or is is that motivating in some way?
Sage–
Right. Yeah. Why do you feel small?
Brett–
Well.
Sage–
I don’t know. And that’s another thing we were thinking about, big artists that are alive and working now. You know, how do they handle? And I couldn’t think of a household name that’s a big visual artist. Well, except one most people know Banksy is. So there’s that. But I think the main point is that there are so many people out there with so much good work, and they have a way of showing it without having to go through a filter. Having to have a gallery vet them and.
Brett–
Nancy. Yeah.
Sage–
To have someone say this is something that needs to be presented to the world as some of the best artwork. I think one of the things is there’s a lot more people in the world than the population is much larger. So there’s a lot of people and a lot of people out there doing art and there’s a lot of ways for them to get it out there. So we feel this law.
Brett–
Yeah. Yeah.
Sage–
Lost in all of this work and this amazing work. It’s just so kind of like, nefarious that there. I don’t know why that word sticks with me. I think I said the last.
Brett–
Nefarious boom. Boom, boom. Yeah.
Sage–
Podcast and just been hanging around. In my head. That there’s a lot of work that’s put out there that has been doctored. It’s been done digitally. It’s been AI. It’s, you know.
Brett–
Enhanced, yeah.
Sage–
And we’re looking at stuff that has not really been hand done, you know.
Brett–
Not, not as handmade, like, even though you could say technology has a hand. And in in the newest version of our creative output as a as a as a species that we are.
Sage–
Sure it can be, but. Right. Right. And that’s and that’s part of the conversation about doing hard work that I was talking about is like, are we going to lose the skills sets that require, you know, that are required to sketch and paint and everything by hand because we have all this digital stuff. But right now we’re we are impressed when we see something that is supposed to have been done by hand and.
Brett–
Yeah, I’ve noticed that.
Sage–
And unfortunately.
Brett–
I have I. You know, when I I work my sketchbooks by hand. Yeah, pencils and markers and paints and whatnot. And it’s a whole different vibe when I post that as opposed to when I do a lot of stuff on an app or and digital. It’s really cool, but at the same time, yeah.
Sage–
Yeah. It is. But there is a quality to handgun stuff, yeah.
Brett–
You could just see it you feel. It and it’s something you can’t describe but going, yeah.
Sage–
Yeah, social media shows us, you know, perfectly composed, drawn, painted pieces that we’re impressed by. And then we compare that to ourselves. So if you’ve discovered that social media is a problem. You can do what I did and I have taken all my social media apps. Well, I didn’t take them off my phone, but I deleted the icons so I have to dig down to get into them. Yeah, I did. Because I I don’t want them. I don’t want them at my fingertips. I don’t want to be like, I’m bored. I’m going to go on Instagram, look at what people are doing. I want that stuff out of my head.
Brett–
Oh, you did? I didn’t know that. Yeah. I mean the positive to. The social media is your feed. In your eyes and you got eye candy and you got input, but the downfall is definitely the the blaze that we can get into. Yeah, you could talk about screens then too.
Sage–
I know but. The compare comparison that we can get to. We could talk about screens and so you can get an app on your phone that will block block your apps for you. Yeah, during certain times or or limit how much time you work on it. So we have one that we have both we both put on everything it’s called.
Brett–
Just limit your time, which I think is great. And we’re not trying to promote this thing.
Sage–
No, we don’t know. But if this company wants to help this company wants. To sponsor this podcast, it’s called. And.
Brett–
Yeah, you, you know, first when you open an app, it’ll say is this important? And then if you hit yes, unlock it, then it waits 5 seconds.
Sage–
Well, you can set all that up too. You can have it wait half a minute if you want, or whatever to make sure you really want to get on there, and then you can stay on for 5 minutes or 10 minutes. You can set times like I’m a little obsessed with the news right now because the best drama on TV right now is a freaking election.
Brett–
OK. Yeah, you. Set up. Ohh I see. Yeah. Yeah, you can’t write stuff this good.
Sage–
It’s just so. Crazy, so I have it where I can only freely get into any of my news apps or YouTube from 9:00 AM to 9:30 and 8:30 to 9:00 at night. So I have. I have two half hour periods that if I want to get in there without having to go through all my screen stuff.
Brett–
Oh, interesting, yeah.
Sage–
And and then get kicked out in 10 minutes to get to work for it a little. Yeah. So those are my free times. So and and I also don’t get notices from any of them during that time either. And I think it’s part of that app. So it’s a great little app and there’s other ones out there, but you can totally customize them. So you’re not always dealing with the screen block because there’s certain time periods you may need to get into those apps, but.
Brett–
Yeah. Yeah, that’s great.
Sage–
It really helps like I. Don’t like getting on social media, but every once in a while I have to because people message me like you. Guys. Message me. Yeah. So I have to get on there, but I don’t want to get caught up in the.
Brett–
How do you?
Sage–
Timeline that can. Help curb how much time you spend on social media. If that is one of the issues that is making you feel poorly about what you’re doing, it is drained your motivation and you’re identifying it. That’s a problem for you, and then we can go talk about when you have ingrained expectations and this like you already mentioned, right, you have had a lot of that when you were younger like you were told not to ever copy. And you didn’t want to learn new things because you felt like what everything was coming from yourself.
Brett–
That it would take something away that it would take something away from my own point of view, or my own way of being. Yeah. And then there is a merit to that because, you know, I’m not just copying blindly other artists, but at the same time, it’s a language that we speak visually in order to, to express ourselves more articulately, we have to.
Sage–
Your original voice and authenticity. All that.
Brett–
To know our visual language, it’s like knowing the alphabet in order to write poetry. So, but that’s something I didn’t understand, so I just created very intuitively. But there’s nothing wrong with that. I’m.
Sage–
Right, exactly.
Brett–
Putting that down, but it is a, you know, professionally. I’ve had to learn over the years to assimilate to a degree without losing, you know, the thing that I want to say or to to do. It’s not just performing visual tricks that you learn. It’s more like, what do you do with those things and then you can invent things by doing.
Sage–
Right.
Brett–
Hybrids of different kinds of art that you love. So.
Sage–
I mean, it can be a handicap if you want to like I would and and we were both brought up in a similar way and I don’t remember where I got. From, but the idea that you weren’t supposed to copy your stuff had to be your your work and I.
Brett–
And there’s there’s a positive. Thing to that for sure.
Sage–
Yeah. And in an art school, when I was in art school, we did not do a lot of copying. I hear that happening more and more from people I know that are in art school, where they do a lot of replication and way back when people were journeymen to artists and learned their, yeah, they learned their style, they learned all their tricks. And then they branched out.
Brett–
That’s right, Leonardo. And and all of them.
Sage–
From there.
Brett–
It’s like learning how to speak a language in. Order to in order to speak.
Sage–
Right. And I think it has, it might have handed. Yeah, but it might have handicapped us because.
Brett–
Yes.
Sage–
Instead of having learned and standing on the shoulders of other people, we were climbing all on our own so it could have we we could have been, maybe farther along or whatnot, or.
Brett–
Yeah, I kind of feel like that, you know, but it didn’t hurt my drive. That’s.
Sage–
You. We wait. No, right, exactly me either.
Brett–
The thing I was. Very driven and I just kept producing, even though I looked back up, you know, work when I was 10 and he’s like ohh how much I can see my influences actually. How much more I could have maybe accomplished if I had not copied but studied other ways, but that’s something you learn in college as you, you know, develop your mind.
Sage–
Right. Yeah, but it’s just a different path and we’ve we’ve ended up with our style and our voice because we took a different path in the end. We still have been artists all our life and and we we’re just playing it on so. So yeah, so those those kinds of expectations of thinking, it’s just coming from you. And there’s also the expectations in our.
Brett–
Somehow we made it through, yeah. Yeah.
Sage–
Culture in the United States, for sure, and in a lot of Western cultures where you feel like you have to make money at what you’re. And it it validates it somehow and it’s also something that’s ingrained with us cause like why are you doing that if you’re not going to sell it and make money, or at least that you’re going to make it and then be able to sell it enough that you can buy more materials and keep doing what you’re doing, but people forget that.
Brett–
Validates. Somehow. Yeah, I. Yeah.
Sage–
Making art is not about it being a product. Most of the time. Some people. For some people it is because they’re, you know, they’re doing it for a living. They have to sell the stuff to get food on the table and all that. But it’s a process. It’s an experience. It’s a. Ernie and if you think like I’m not selling, I’m not, you know, making the money I need to off of this stuff.
Brett–
Yeah. It’s unmotivating, but it shouldn’t be that way, yeah.
Sage–
And it and it can be, you know. What and if you go to a show and I have had shows or I’ve gone and you know or or mailed them in or whatnot. And I haven’t made anything, you know, I’ve got I’m. Like my gosh, I didn’t. Hardly cover my cost, you know. It it hurts, it can really put.
Brett–
Yeah.
Sage–
You down for? A little while, but you go through that you like, you acknowledge the emotion, and you’re like that. It didn’t work, but you know it, no matter. What? Whether you sell it or not, you got the experience of making those things, and as long as you’re making the things that you love, you’re making something that you enjoy. If you’re enjoying the process, it’s still valuable. It’s like, well, it’s like I say like like people are like, I need to get something out of this. I’m like, if you go on a hike or you go.
Brett–
Yeah. Say it. Yeah, that’s true. That’s true.
Sage–
Sail on a boat or you go on a trip. Are you expecting to have a product or something at the end of it? You’re not you. Go on that because the process, the journey, the experience itself.
Brett–
At the end of it, yeah.
Sage–
Is. What you get out of? It you know, so you don’t always speak funny.
Brett–
Yeah. Know what to expect exactly. You know you’ll be on the ocean, but you don’t know exactly. Hopefully. Yeah. And you, hopefully the boat won’t go.
Sage–
Hopefully, hopefully and and you’re if you’re in a boat.
Brett–
Down. But if it does.
Sage–
Hiking. You hope not to be. In the ocean. But, but yeah, right. Yeah, but yeah, you you get more, you get something out of it. I mean, at the end of our lives, we’re probably not going to.
Brett–
Details details.
Sage–
Have a lot of these things, or if we do, they’re not going to be important. But our experiences, our memories, the things we do with other people, comes out of what we do. So if you made the work and you enjoyed making the work and you’re proud of your work, whether or not it.
Brett–
Hmm.
Sage–
Cells, you know, you gotta look at and. Say. Not that it’s bad work. It not selling doesn’t mean it’s bad work. It means you’re in the wrong market or the market wasn’t there that day. Your people, your customers weren’t there that day that then you have to say, OK, it’s not you. If you looked at it and you thought this is good work, I’m putting this out there because I love what I did. There’s other people that will love what you did, but maybe that day they weren’t there, you know, or that’s.
Brett–
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Ask Van Gogh, right.
Sage–
Poor guy. Or if you’re expecting awards or accolades or anything of that sort, that could be another thing that you’re expecting, like putting stuff out online and expecting to get a lot of likes and then you don’t, never, ever. And I’ve said this before, so I apologize, I’m repeating myself.
Brett–
Algorithms, yeah.
Sage–
Don’t think that how many likes you get on your work is a judgment of whether it’s good or not, cause you can put something out and you just happen to hit a quiet period in who your work gets sent to, whose whose pages are or timelines are.
Brett–
Yeah.
Sage–
Going to be on or, you know, a lot of people are on at the same time, which totally dilutes the option in the possibility of people seeing your work and liking it, so you can’t judge it by that, you know. So I mean, yeah, if you get a lot of likes, you could also say you can’t judge. That’s good because you got a lot of likes.
Brett–
Well, if you guys haven’t done it, you should hide the amount of likes that shows. Yeah, I think it’s silly to to, you know, to advertise how many likes, I mean, unless you’re like Taylor Swift and you get 23 billion likes.
Sage–
Ohh on Instagram. Brett hides. How many? Lives he gets. But then you don’t need to.
Brett–
Something then you don’t even care. Exactly. So what’s the point? So?
Sage–
Even have that?
Brett–
You know that’s private information, I I don’t. Even. Want to value it too much, so I deem that out and it. It feels good it. Feels cleaner for me and it’s not a value judgment placed on it cause other people can read the amount of likes and then they is they think ohh only 20 people like that. Uh, but 40 people like that one. What are they?
Sage–
Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. And then they start they they they.
Brett–
Seeing in it. Then I start to take that value judgement too. So to me it’s it’s all about the experimenting and going into the unknown.
Sage–
Judgment based on those, yeah, yeah.
Brett–
And then judge it however you like. If you like it, great. If you don’t. Yeah, it was my experience, you know, so.
Sage–
Basically, if you’re finding yourself looking at those likes and how many people are liking it, yeah, and you’re and you’re rude is based on whether you get a lot of likes or not.
Brett–
This is good. Ohh it is good.
Sage–
There might be a. Problem if it’s if it’s affecting your motivation in particular, then that might be something that.
Brett–
Yeah, it is. It is. And yeah, big picture, it’s about what we’re talking about with the motivation, yeah.
Sage–
You want to. Yeah, right. Exactly. So, yeah, so any of those expectations, if they’re not getting met, look for ways to either look at it different. That you’re doing the work for yourself 1st and that you’re having the experience and the joy of that experience. And then if you do need to make money off it or whatnot, you gotta look at your market. You gotta look at those very particular things, but try to take away the aspect of these expectations to determine whether I should or shouldn’t make art. Yeah. Which kind of feeds into the idea of you might feel like, why bother? You’re because you’re frustrated with your own skill level, or that it’s hard work, and now if you’re frustrated because you’re trying to do what you’re seeing other people do online, just stop that. Just just stop that and work on what you want to accomplish in order to say what you want to say in order to make the things that are. In your head. And not the stuff that’s in your head that looks like other people stuff online, because that’s what’s in your. I honestly think people should stay away from social media when you’re in, when you’re in a major creative mode where you’re trying to do your own work. I just, I feel.
Brett–
A little bit, yeah.
Sage–
Like it’s just, you know.
Brett–
Can you close your eyes and picture what’s in your own mind?
Sage–
I mean, some people are probably going to be better at ignoring that than other people, but I know it’s it’s.
Brett–
Yeah.
Sage–
Something that gets into my head.
Brett–
Also, I would say even still visualizing what it is that we want to do and connecting with how we do what we. It’s still going to fall short of what we wanted it to be.
Sage–
But if you are short, you know on certain skills you haven’t learned yet or whatnot, don’t be hard on yourself, but do learn them. It is. It is an amazing feeling of accomplishment when you can gain a skill and do something that you hadn’t done before.
Brett–
That you didn’t think you could do, and that’s that’s super hard because you have to believe that with enough, with enough, with enough work, perseverance to.
Sage–
That you could. A lot of time, right? And.
Brett–
City and dedication that you you can learn certain things, yeah.
Sage–
And dedication. Yeah, I think you can. I think you can learn anything, honestly. You know, I.
Brett–
But you’re you’re a professional learner. You are. You’re like, as as learning oriented.
Sage–
I. I love to. Learn things I love to learn new things. You know, even when it’s hard. Although you know, when you don’t have a lot of time or whatnot, you feel like, gosh, I just want to learn it faster and it it can be hard work, but do attempt it. Try to gain those skills. Just one step at a time. One day at a time. Well, initially you’re going to do it really poorly.
Brett–
As it gets, Yep. Yeah. Even doing them really poorly. You know, in my mind.
Sage–
So just just go out and do it. Do it a lot. Do it poorly. A lot, you know.
Brett–
We’ve never no just kidding. Yeah, exactly. Over and over again. And then. You feel like, oh, why am I doing it? You can get back to that, you know, look, it just didn’t work. It didn’t work. But the 10th or. 11th time it might start to work.
Sage–
Or hundredth time or whatever it is, because it’s about getting your brain and your brain connected to your hand in a way that can produce what it is that.
Brett–
Or 150th time, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have drawn so, so much in my life. It it. It comes a little. It’s like speaking a language. The more you do it, you know, you know, a lot of people who don’t draw, they might be inclined to say, I don’t know how you do it, but you have to have the inclination to want to sit down and.
Sage–
You need to do. Asia. Yeah.
Brett–
Create whatever way.
Sage–
Yeah, but if you have the inclination and you’re having a hard time with it and you could be saying this is so hard, why am I bothering? I’m never going to be able to do it that if you want to do it, you can do it. It just depends on how motivated you are to do it and what what it’s going to, you know, measure what it’s going to do for you when you get to the point where you’ve learned it, you know, and try to keep your eye on.
Brett–
That’s true. That’s true. Yeah.
Sage–
On the end result that you’re after, I think you can keep yourself motivated by knowing what the end goal is, and then just take it one small thing at at. And don’t worry about how quickly we always want everything to happen very quickly these days.
Brett–
Only because we’re in a world that everything is like instant instant gratification.
Sage–
Happened very quickly. I know enjoy the process of learning, enjoy the little discoveries, enjoy the little accomplishments.
Brett–
And enjoy the mistakes you know.
Sage–
OK. So yeah, then there’s also this thing about not being sure what to create and we feel like we don’t have any ideas. We don’t have any inspiration. 2 episodes ago. You can listen to them mindfully. Inspired episode about how to find more inspiration and be more aware of inspiration. I think when we don’t know what to create, I think it’s two things. I think it’s one not getting out and about and finding inspiration like being inspired like not going to galleries, not talking to other artists, not going to shows not.
Brett–
We’re taking a walk in the park, you know.
Sage–
Well, even that even that kind of stuff. But if you’re feeling uninspired and you feel like you don’t know what to create, I think maybe you you haven’t had enough. Put to have an opinion on what else there is that you want to say, what you. Want to talk about?
Brett–
I would say uncovering things in yourself that are already there, but you’re not aware.
Sage–
Yeah, we all have things to say, but sometimes they get buried under the day-to-day life or all the minutiae of the things we have to do. And I I strongly encourage people to #1 like at the end of every podcast, I say feed your news, do something new, go out and have new experiences.
Brett–
Buried. No, we’re we’re on a, we’re on a treadmill.
Sage–
Because that’s what is going to feed you. So if you’re, if you’re like, I don’t feel like I have anything to say anymore. I’m not sure what I want to do. I’m not sure what I want to create. It may be because you haven’t given yourself and your views the kind of experiences that get you. Thinking. You know, and I and sometimes even a good book can give you the, like, unwrap something in you that’s like ohh
Brett–
Yeah.
Sage–
I had thought about this when I was younger, haven’t thought about since then. That’s something I’m. Really interested in or. The other thing about new experiences, and I think this is probably the biggest thing really, is that serendipity will drop things in your. Lap.
Brett–
Like you can’t force these things, yeah.
Sage–
How many people have these really crazy passion for a job that came to them through some one time experience? They had. Serendipity is only going to happen if you’re out there doing things, so taking trips, hitting the road and going out to shows or and not necessarily art shows. Music shows going hiking, going and talking to different people, reading different books, listening to different podcasts. Whatever it is, you will run into things the more new things. That you expect? Experience and you won’t always be looking for that particular thing. So it’s kind of hard to say. I’m going to go out and look for this kind of experience. I’m going to go out and hope to run into this kind of thing that’s going to feed my art, and you don’t need to do that if there’s that kind of space in. You. That you want to have something more particular to say or you want something new. Say go and have the new experiences and and I think it will come to you. And then the other thing. Is kind of what we just talked about. You may feel like you don’t know to create because of comparison. Looking at what other people are doing, thinking that you need to do something particular like when I was a working artist, it was hard not to look at the market and see what other people were selling, what was what was flying out the door, what was trending at the time and think I need to make something. That will sell. Yeah, I can’t say I was ever at a loss. What to make? But sometimes I would be kind of stuck with what to make to sell, and that’s not the same thing. I think if you make things based on what you want to make and then you go find the right market that you can always be successful, if not all the time often enough.
Brett–
I would argue that you should always make the things that you want to make. Yeah. Yeah, especially when it comes to. On work.
Sage–
So that will take some self contemplation. Am I? Do I feel like I don’t have anything to create because I keep trying to make things like other people are making or I keep trying to make things I think will sell. And if you do that, you know what you need to do what Stephen King calls closing the door.
Brett–
Oh, I see what you’re saying.
Sage–
Which means that you don’t have anybody else’s influence in the studio with you when you’re creating. And Stephen King that has this thing about when he’s writing the book initially he closes the door, which means he’s not thinking about his readers, his editors, his wife, anybody else’s opinion. He’s just going to write what he wants to write and then. He edits with his dog. Open you create without thinking about what anyone else is going to think of it, and that’s a big thing about social media. If you post all the time, if you post as soon as you’re done with something, then chances are through the majority of the creation process, you’re going to be thinking what will people think of this? Oh, I’ve got to make this more dramatic. I’ve got to make this more like what?
Brett–
Hmm.
Sage–
That people are doing because you want to get that feedback. I would say you should give yourself some period of time between when you finish something and when it actually gets post. Posted because for two reasons. One, because I I think you will be less likely to think about what will people say when I get this posted at the end of the day or end of the week whenever it’s done. And the other thing is you will look at it differently.
Brett–
Yeah, for sure.
Sage–
2346 months down the road and you may not like it or you may really like it a lot better, or you may see what needs to be improved and you can make those tweaks and put something out there that you’re really, you know, really super proud of.
Brett–
Some of my favorite things I’ve done I after I’ve done them. I don’t like them at all. And then I look at them six months later and I’m like, oh, I like that because it’s it does feel very different.
Sage–
Right.
Brett–
In its own way, like to break out of routines and and then just sort of let go. I don’t know how else to say it, so you just go into the unknown and and see what comes out. A lot of the time it just feels like chaos when I’m doing it, but then the and the results, that experience of chaos, the result to me is chaos. But then when I look back at it, you know, in six months, I’m like, oh, there’s something.
Sage–
Yeah, yeah.
Brett–
Yes.
Brett–
Really interesting there for me now which I just had didn’t have eyes for for sure.
Sage–
Yeah. So yeah, so even partial work, which is actually a really cool thing where like facing the blank page.
Brett–
Hard.
Sage–
Starting from, nothing is hard, so sometimes you feel you don’t have anything to say because facing the blank page or the blank canvas or whatever. There’s so many possibilities that it’s too much. So if you just do whatever whatever comes to mind, whatever you feel like, and then you just put it away and you come back to it later, you’re looking at something that is no longer a blank page, but it’s a place to start. You have some things that you can begin with, some limitations to what? You can do because it’s already been predetermined by the size that you started with or the colors that you’re using or whatnot. And you have the limitations that can help you work out something without the overwhelming feeling that we get when we’re facing all the creative choices that we have on a blank page. So those are my thoughts about if you’re not sure what you want to create, new experiences, get out there, get that news feed and then.
Brett–
Yeah.
Sage–
Also, give yourself the opportunity to yeah, just do things without anybody else in your head. Yeah. And then, like, maybe that’s even a third thing. Do things part way or do things and then put them away and then come back to them later. And you may you may see what you didn’t see. Like sometimes I make things and I go back to them later.
Brett–
Let go.
Sage–
Like what was I doing there? And then I try to read into my own work, not remember what I was doing. And I’ll see things. I didn’t realize that I was putting in there, like subconscious themes.
Brett–
And that’s where the subconscious thing comes into play. We need to be open for that. Being part of the process and not to to assume that we have complete Dominion and control over everything we do. I think that’s that’s a dead end. That’s a dead end.
Sage–
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it’s true. Creativity doesn’t. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that’s another one. And then like, if you just aren’t excited by your materials anymore, you don’t feel a challenge or you feel like what you do is is all work and you’re not enjoying it. I would say stop working with that material. Stop doing what you’re doing that now. Not everybody has that choice because you’ve built up a business around it and you’re selling. You know the same kinds of things all the time, and that’s what pays your bills. And I know that’s hard, but if that’s the case, then maybe you need to make room for something new again. New experiences are really, I think, at the root of really vibrant creative. Tivity if the materials the style, the form, whatever it is that you’re doing is becoming really hard for you to get excited about. And if you’re not excited about your art, it’s not going to come across on what you’re making either. So you could set your materials aside. You could you could try something else. You could, and maybe not full time, but on the side.
Brett–
Maybe not to stop doing it, but just take a break. From doing it.
Sage–
But you could continue to do like let’s say like when I was a working artist and I was trying to make money, I was trying to pay my bill. So that there was a point at which I was like, I want to do something very different. Well, what I ended up doing was I was doing that stuff on the side and I ended up opening an Etsy shop and I sold this other new work through Etsy. But I got to do what I wanted too. And having that motivation and being inspired by the new work. Helped me when I had to go make the work for the shows. A lot of what I was doing there worked his way into the more fantastic pieces that I had to make in order to feed that particular market. But I was looking at it from a different angle, like a different position. Suddenly because I was working on.
Brett–
Hmm.
Sage–
I worked that was very different. I was working on wall pieces instead of sculptural pieces and jewelry, and I ended up taking those skills that I was learning, doing that and I made like fossils which like sold, they just flew out the door. It was great. So I found something that could sell and could make money and could also use the skill that I was. New to and excited about, yeah.
Brett–
I could see 11 making fossils. That’s cool. Yeah, you love bones and.
Sage–
Yeah, they made fossils and then they would mold them and cast them with resin and paint them and all this stuff. So it’s a whole different set.
Brett–
Yeah, that’s super cool.
Sage–
Of skills in a lot of ways, for me, just stretch yourself. You may feel like you can’t stretch yourself, but I’m sure you can look for it. Yeah, some people don’t like change.
Brett–
What’s our nature? We don’t like change. Most people. I I like change. But it depends on the change, I think.
Sage–
Yeah, I’d love change. It’s for an artist, I think change is good, you know, not that if you enjoy making.
Brett–
Change you want everything the same all the time.
Sage–
I mean, if you do well selling the same thing all the time, I mean, you could probably continue that for a little while, but eventually you’re going to start your markets, gonna start dwindling because you’re so used to it. So you should you should freshen up what you’re doing anyway. So if you aren’t excited about what you’re doing, look for the ways that you can make change in your life. And even if you feel like I can’t make new art.
Brett–
Yeah.
Brett–
It gets old.
Sage–
Maybe you can do new side things, maybe you could. Go out on new excursions or you know, go to different types of galleries or just do something to bring something new into your life and get your mind to shift gears more so than what you’ve been doing before. I hope that’s that’s helpful. And then I guess the last thing is really when you’re dealing with outside situations. That are affecting your work and you’re just feeling like why? I mean, existential crises are often due to outside issues when you are getting depressed because whatever you know. Like I’ve had some issues the past couple of years because there’s been some family things going on that have been really hard or because when I I closed up well, I didn’t close up. I stopped producing in the publication business and I didn’t realize how much I depended on on my constant deadlines. I had a magazine out every three months. I had a newsletter twice a month. I had a blog three times a week.
Brett–
You’re in a production pipeline that you’ve created.
Sage–
I was confident. I always had deadlines and suddenly had no dead.
Brett–
MHM.
Sage–
And wow, it was just like being dropped, like I was floating around on a glider, and then someone just cut the wings off. Of it I. Just none. And that was really, really hard. And you hear that from a lot of people who have retired, you know, they retired from a job and then they just are like, I don’t know what I’m doing with myself.
Brett–
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Sage–
You know, so you can get depressed for a whole, whole myriad of reasons.
Brett–
A sense of purpose, you know? Yeah.
Sage–
Yeah, sense of purpose is is so important.
Brett–
And especially when you’re used to that sense of purpose. Including hitting deadlines that are outside of yourself, not just self appointed.
Sage–
Deadline or you have a job that feeds it to you and you have no choice, you know. But if you’re dealing with depression, do find, you know, obviously, find help and find the sores. And don’t be hard on yourself about not finding the motivation to do your work because that that will often come hand in hand. You will have a hard time finding the joy and the motivation to do your work when you’re dealing with outside.
Brett–
Yeah.
Sage–
Influences like that and of course like grief. You know, the loss of of family members or even pets or or loss of a job. I mean, there’s grief in the. To you know, those things can all. Yeah. Exactly. And and really affect you and it’s going to take time and that’s fine. You know, and if you can, if you can find the way to work through what you’re dealing with through your own artwork, you know, perhaps you can talk to somebody about how you can do that. And of course, everybody’s situation is going to be different. So.
Brett–
Be kind, yeah. Be kind to yourself, right, you know.
Sage–
There’s nothing specific we can offer on that, but you know it is definitely, you know, art can be therapeutic, of course. And then some people, it’s health situations. Like people, you get arthritis. It’s harder to work with your materials or, you know, eyesight issues, or sitting too long or whatnot. There are people out there that will help you figure this stuff out. Your doctor can help you figure out physical therapists can help you figure it out. Therapists can help you figure it out. Physical limitations. Are just limitations. If that makes it, this seems like a really dumb comment, but no.
Brett–
And it is.
Sage–
But I mean. Like we all have limitations. Whether it’s a limitation on how much time we have during the day, how much money we have from the materials we can buy on, what we’re able to do because we have other obligations. You know, if you have a physical limitation, it’s just another hurdle and life is all about. Working those hurdles and hurdles are just like an everyday thing, right? So this is the part I talked about at the beginning. It’s not really a. Here’s a problem. Here’s how to fix it. Thing, you know, like this on we this this being hard on ourselves, this lack of motivation seems to be fairly common. I don’t know any artists or creatives that don’t actually get into the state at some point in time and why. Is that you know is is it because of what we do or is it simple? Really, part of what it means to be a creative it’s like I’m very much a problem solver. I I like to fix things as we mentioned.
Brett–
I will attest to that.
Sage–
And this last week I actually started working on a draft for a podcast about not fixing things, and it got. Me thinking cause. Overlapping. I’m like, I’m always trying to give you solutions, but maybe sometimes things don’t need to be fixed.
Brett–
Yeah, I agree.
Sage–
So maybe these moments where we lack motivation or have these existential doubts, maybe it’s. Sorry, maybe we are supposed to be like this. I’d like to suggest that maybe these periods are part of just the artistic process. Perhaps we need to get down into that valley just to give the Muse time to, well, just Muse to, to muse them. You know, I wonder if this happens.
Brett–
They can just do it or whatever. Yeah. Moves around, they’ll lose it up.
Sage–
Or regularly for artists or creatives, them for other people I don’t know. But because we go through these periods of intense creativity and heightened excitement and we just kind of pour ourselves into our work and then, you know, we come out the other side and maybe we’re spent. Or maybe we lack the energy to get started on something else? Or or our idea about what the results will be. We thought we might be getting awards. For our work. Or a lot of likes online or something. And if the results don’t meet our expectations, I think it can hit us really hard. Or do you actually get what you’re hoping for? And then after that it’s kind of like a now what you know.
Brett–
Like anticlimatic.
Sage–
Yeah, yeah, you know, like, back in the day, I had this goal in five years. I would get this particular ward at the. This huge show that I did and I got it in three years and it was wonderful. That weekend I was on the high all weekend and then it came home and I was. Like uh? What now? You know? Yeah. And it’s actually why I started magazine. But because I was. Looking for the next thing, but it can be a period of down after having a big hit. Why as well? But isn’t that just part of the, you know, process of, I mean I.
Brett–
Mean life cycle?
Sage–
Right. It’s just the ups and downs. But yeah, I think the actual work, the intense desire and hope and anticipation and fear that we have as we work on our stuff is in a way. Maybe what we’re doing it for versus like the award or the accolades or the recognition, but all of that, that whole process is so. Fighting or I mean it could be scary and stressful and all that kind of stuff, but I think I think we kind of. Feed on it a little bit, you know.
Brett–
It seems like because it’s our nature to have variety and the UPS and the.
Sage–
Downs. Yeah, I think we spend all this time working towards and anticipating the possibility of being successful or reaching some particular goal or some kind of marker in our career. And then once we’ve reached it, it does have a let down period, but it should. Because when you have these higher periods and these lower periods, the higher periods in your life or career in your art, whatever you can appreciate those more because you have downtime, you have times where they’re not like that. So there’s a there’s a comparison. There’s a contrast. Yeah, exactly. So maybe after you’ve reached a goal, even if it’s just.
Brett–
Yes.
Brett–
Contrast.
Sage–
Finishing a really big complex piece or getting that award or whatever that you’re after when you get back to the grind to the day-to-day, to the normal and the ordinary parts of our lives. Yeah, we can feel a little let down, but maybe that’s the way it’s supposed to go. Because at time when you’re not feeling like you know what to do next or are disappointed by how things turned out or you’re lacking the motivation for any other reasons that we just talked about, maybe that’s our internal creative mechanism getting, you know, kind of wound up underneath it all because at some point, don’t you just get mad? If you feel lost or hopeless, or you’re frustrated with your work, you.
Brett–
Know right? I guess so, yeah. I didn’t thought about it that way, but.
Sage–
And I think. Yeah. And I think maybe those kinds of emotions can lead you to push yourself to find the next thing that you. What to do? You know, I think it can put you in a position to look into the things you might not have done before, and maybe it’ll push you past any kind of defeatist feelings that we have when things didn’t work. Out. Maybe it’s.
Brett–
The idea that we’re never really satisfied and we want to just keep going even if we have a little success and.
Sage–
Yeah. As we go, yes, exactly and I think. And not being satisfied is a good thing. Like I used to say that I don’t want to be happy and people be like you’re. More precisely, I don’t want to be content because if you’re just content than what you OK? You’re good. Everything’s good. What do you have to look forward to? You know, I think struggle is a big part of what gets us going. What’s gets gets us out of bed every day cause we gotta go do this thing. We gotta go solve this problem. We gotta reach the school. We gotta accomplish this thing that we want to accomplish.
Brett–
Yeah.
Sage–
And so if we have these down period. These are maybe rest periods for our Muse and for our creativity and it gives us potential motivation to push us into something else new and exciting that will get us motivated again. But maybe we need to go through these periods and so maybe we shouldn’t be looking at them as bad things. But yes, we could. Look at them as as gifts. Have some sorry, painful, painful.
Brett–
Sorry.
Sage–
Sometimes painful, but yes, you don’t wear.
Brett–
Necessarily once, yeah.
Sage–
So so maybe these down times are irregular and necessary part of being a creative because the not so good times make the good times or the highs feel amazing and memorable and make these low times seem worth working through.
Brett–
To take the good.
Sage–
With the bad it’s. Yeah. That, and I think it’s creative. We are fed by. The things that we struggle through, I mean not that I don’t know people that are very happy people when they make art, you know. But I think a lot of us make art because it’s a struggle because we are looking for answers or truth or looking for a way to express these things that are kind of bottled up inside of us. So maybe when we’re not motivated, when we’re frustrated, when we’re in these points of, I don’t know why I should bother.
Brett–
MHM.
Sage–
When you hear that in your head, maybe she’s rethinking. OK. Yes. I’m in that point of the process. And and that point of the cycle that I think we all go through is creative.
Brett–
Then you don’t fight it or feel better.
Sage–
Right. And and and maybe not stress out about it too much, all the things that we talked about, the suggestions that we made about going to finding new things or trying new art or doing whatever it is that you need to do to fight the particular type of listlessness or lack of motivation that you have, I think those are all very relevant and you should. Try them, but also don’t worry about the fact that you’re in that position cause you just add to the, you know, emotional pain of those times. Instead, just say it. Yeah. Don’t fight it. It is what it is. Look at it as time to step back and work through what you’re doing and where you’re going. You know where you’re going.
Brett–
Oh, I see.
Brett–
Don’t fight.
Sage–
Yeah, 100%. Yeah. So, so that was my thought. I like, yeah, just to to maybe not fight this quite so much, put the solutions into place. But you know, it is what it is. It’s part of the cycle. That’s what I think. Yeah.
Brett–
Take that thought, yeah. Yeah, I like that.
Sage–
Yeah. So, yeah, so leave you that thought. And if you have your own thoughts or you have your own stories or anything that you would like to tell me, you can write me at the sagearts.com you can reach out on Instagram or Facebook and leave me a message or you can respond to a post. And if you listen to these shows and you’re really inspired and you feel like this has value and you want to give back, you are more than welcome.
Brett–
Seeing it as part of the process.
Sage–
To donate through the Buy me a coffee buttons or the PayPal buttons, you’ll find the links or buttons in your show notes or description section of wherever you’re listening to this podcast from or on the homepage of the sagearts.com. You can Scroll down about like kind of halfway and you’ll find this, but. There. And if you haven’t done so already, do remember to hit the follow button for the podcast from whatever podcast player you’re in. Or if you’re on YouTube, the subscribe button and then if you would like to leave me a review. I haven’t been asking for them. I really should have been. I suppose this. Whole time, but I’d love to get reviews because it does help other people who are interested in the podcast. You know whether this is the kind of thing that they want to spend their precious time on, but in any case, thank you for joining us for this one. And thank you, Brett, for being here and thank you river for sleepy.
Brett–
That was funny.
Sage–
Thank you and thank you Amber, for not bothering your sister. Did she conked out thing? Thank goodness. I’m so glad we got to do this. I wasn’t sure we were going to.
Brett–
She really did sleep. That was great.
Sage–
Manage it with the dog.
Brett–
Yeah. No, they did. Great. The drugs probably helped though.
Sage–
So the drugs totally helps. But yeah, the ones. That we took.
Brett–
Just kidding, yeah. Yeah, that heroine was wonderful.
Sage–
Yeah, we we don’t do drugs. We literally don’t Advil, lots of Advil, no.
Brett–
Alright, just love.
Sage–
But the other?
Brett–
Yeah. No, the the dog had to be on some little bit of a sedative.
Sage–
Four rivers on. Yeah, rivers on medication.
Brett–
To help her leg heal. So.
Sage–
Yeah. So thank you everybody. And for all of you out there. Thank you for joining us and do go out there and see that news and get those new experiences and keep your motivation up. And then don’t forget to be true to your weirdness. And join us again next time on the Stage Arts podcast. Cool. OK.
