EP.061 Hard Work is Good Work

Show Notes:

When you are up against something tricky or it’s something that you don’t have the skill for yet or it’s just find boring, how do you handle it? Do you look for ways to get around it, or maybe you plan to just not do that step, or maybe you give up on the project all together? Or do you look at it as a challenge or, at the very least, shrug and think, that’s just part of what I need to do to get this great result I’m so looking forward to?

Find out why hard work is not always thought of as good work these days, where that idea comes into play in the studio and why it can really diminish your experience and even what you get out of your most accomplished efforts. I’ll also have some of my own tips and tricks to not just get through the hard work but to reset your brain so you see and embrace the value and all the joy that comes from doing “hard” work.

Other Resources mentioned:

And vote! Go here to register in your area and get the info you need on local candidates and propositions:Vote411.org

Leave a COMMENT: https://thesagearts.com/episodes/

CONTACT SAGE

Email: https://thesagearts.com/contact/

And join Sage on social media:

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/thesageartspodcast/

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/TheSageArtsPodcast

GET WEEKLY PODCAST NOTICES & BONUS MATERIAL:

Newsletter goes out every Sunday after an new episode goes up!

https://sagebrayvaron.com/the-sage-arts-podcast/

SUPPORT THIS PODCAST

· Buy me a coffee!

· Give back with PayPal

· Buy a STICKER! (Get 2 per order as of this release.)

· Buy polymer art books and magazines

CREDITS:

Cover design by Sage; Illustration by Olga Kostenko

Music by Playsound


Transcript:

–AI transcribed, unedited. Please excuse the copious errors.—

And I think that’s sad. Not just because of the lost skills, but because of the lost experiences and most of all, I wouldn’t want anyone to miss out on the intensity of pride and feeling of accomplishment that comes with doing something hard. Hello all my hard working wonderful creatives out there. Thank you for joining me on the Sage Arts podcast. This is sage and it is just me and you today so. So come on into my podcast room. I did have river here earlier, but she’s she just can’t settle down. So so she’s relegated to her little crate out in the living room and she’s watching birds on TV, so hopefully that’ll that’ll keep her her yelps down. She is so loud. She is so loud. We’ve taken to wearing. Earplugs. When we take her outside to herd her fish, I don’t know if I told you guys about this. It’s so cute. So real quick. Little detour on the conversation. But we have a pond and we have, like, probably like 2022 fish in it or something at this point. And she is a cattle dog. She loves to herd, and they’re really insistent working dogs. And she is a puppy. Go up to that fish pond and just stare and bark at it forever and couldn’t figure out what she was doing until we realized when she barks all the fish come to her. And then she looks at us when they do. And she’s hurting the fish just by barking. She’s hurting the fish and it’s like she’s so excited. She’s so happy to be hurting her fish. I wish I maybe I’ll get a video of it someday and post it, cause it’s just absolutely adorable. Anyways, it’s super, super loud. We have to wear earplugs. Well, we take her out to hurt her fish and we feed them and all that stuff. But anyways, that’s that’s just a little fun thing. She’s doing really good. She got her last check up and she is good to go. Her bones actually are in place. They everything moved together where it’s supposed to stain. Put. So we are so super excited. I am going to move into our actual subject matter now. Sorry about the little detour our world has just been, you know, all about the dog for so long, it’s really hard to get away from that conversation sometimes. But in any case, today I am going to talk to you about hard work. Now as artists, I think none of us are strangers to hard work. But I think there is an issue with the way our world represents the things. That we do. So I’ll get to that in a second. But the real quick business stuff, I always want to remind you that I do like to hear from you about anything, exchange stories with me, ask questions. You can do that through the sagearts.com website, the contact page there and you can also reach out to me through Facebook and Instagram at the Sage Arts podcast pages. You can also leave comments on my YouTube page at the Sage Arts Podcast there. Well, and then if you listen to this or any of my episodes, you think why I’m really inspired and I really want to give back. You can do so through my buy me a coffee or PayPal pages. You’ll find those links or buttons in the show notes or description section of wherever you listen to this podcast from. Also on the homepage of the sagearts.com, just go a little ways down and you’ll find those buttons there. OK, then let’s get on to this idea. That hard work is good work. And for those of you who have been listening to. A lot of the political chatter going on these days, you’ve probably heard this phrase. Hard work is good work, and I’m not going to say who’s saying it cause I’m not here to talk about any political positions. It just is really a good line that highlights an issue, an insidious one, I would say. That is all too common in our first world lives. It’s a matter that I think is handicapped, creativity and even the joy that we get out of creating our. Art first of. All think about it. There’s a politician out there that is using this line to differentiate their policies from their opponents, as if not. Everybody could agree that hard work is good work. Now. Why is that? Why isn’t it obvious that hard work is good work? Why is it not a universally understood thing? You know? So I heard that line and part of me was like, oh, that’s just a silly. Slogan. But then Brett and I were having a conversation about why people give up on things that they think they want to do, things that they are passionate about, even like learning techniques and skills that are needed to work through a new chosen medium or creating a business. So you can go full time as an artist or do necessary finishing work that. Really puts that professional shine on your art and makes it less and increases its value and all. Stuff, right? But it happens. It happens a lot. Kind of. We all kind of run into this at certain points, but in this conversation. And I’m sorry, I don’t have Brett here with me for this conversation. I am going to try to get him into the podcast studio this weekend so you can look forward to that. But at one point, Brett said disparagingly that it might be simply that people are lazy, like, inherently. Something, but I don’t think that’s true now. It’s true some people are lazy. If we’re going to be brutally honest. But in nicer terms, and probably more at the root of it, it’s that basically we’ve been taught that everything we do should be easy. We have literally been trained that we should be striving for comfort and instantaneous, simple ways to do what we want or need to do, and if you have any doubts about that statement, just think about all the advertising you see these days on social media, television websites, even on the floor of your. Store the vast majority of that advertising is telling you that you can do something simpler, better, easier, faster that you can be successful in your business endeavors or your health goals or your financial goals or relationship goals. And you can do it all in five steps or two weeks or 10 minutes a day. You can learn secrets of some. Largely unknown, so-called genius and have whatever you’re dreaming of by almost just snapping your finger. Yours if you just buy this easy to use thing or pay into this, streamline your life delivered to your door. Never have to think about it. Program or you take classes that will make you an expert at like warp speed. Talk about insidious, right? This stuff is everywhere and it’s another reason actually to probably limit your exposure to online media. Just to diminish the underlying context here, which is that your life isn’t perfect and you aren’t perfect, and the only way to be truly happy is to buy something, and we do buy into this a lot. The time, and it’s not wholly our fault. We are literally trained by all the advertising and everything that we’re fed constantly these days. So just look around you. I mean, see how many gadgets you have, how many one use appliances you have that are there to make your life easier and make things that you have to do get done. Master just, I mean, just look at all the remotes that we have. So like we never have to get up like ever. I mean, this is crazy. I bought a treadmill a a couple weeks ago and it has a remote control with. Like when are you ever gonna need to operate a machine that you’re literally on and running on? You know, I mean, it sounds like it’s something just for the Joker who lives with you, who wants to mess with you as you’re running and change his speeds from another room, you know? Or you can look at the the real epitome of let’s make it super. Easy for you, regardless of the cost. Take the disposable mentality that we have because instead of cleaning and reusing things, we are told that it’s just a lot easier to throw it out and buy new ones. But you know what? That’s not even true. It can actually take you longer and certainly will cost you more to use disposable items. Not to mention the cost on our environment and such. For instance, it takes less time to like darn a sock or sew a button on than it is to get online and buy new clothes. It maybe it’s less fun, but it eats up both your time and your money, right? Or in the studio, let’s take something that’s very applicable to all of us. Take disposable wipes, for instance. And I know a lot of you out there. Use them in your studio. Wipe down your tables and tools and such. You know, I’m not judging you. I’m just saying that when you use them. They have oftentimes chemicals and oils in them that can actually be detrimental to the surfaces of your materials or to the applications of paints and other things. You can use them, but then you really should be wiping down things with alcohol to remove those oils and chemicals that are left behind. But then how is that easier and how is that? Help. You, I mean, I think why not just start using alcohol to begin with and that’s actually what I do. I use a mixture of half water and half alcohol to clean everything in my studio because it does take care of the oils and any residue from the things that I use. And it’s cheap and it’s easy and it evaporates and leaves nothing behind. And then I use rags like old T-shirts that I. Cut up or. Old sheets or you can even purchase microfiber cloth if that’s what you prefer, and then you just toss them in the wash and you’ll never run out of them. It doesn’t take any more time to use that method. It does save money, it saves plastic and landfill space. It just makes more sense to me. And sure, some things do help to get things done faster and we can do things especially with technology that we couldn’t have done without. So there are good things out there that innovation has afforded us. I’m not saying we throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak, but just think about how much we have. Around us that is made to make things easier that really we don’t need them to be easier. It’s about that invasive mentality. Making everything easier is just making us potentially lazier, and I want to bring up technology because it really just feed into us as artists because technology is invading our world in many, many ways. And sometimes it makes it easier. Sometimes it actually makes it harder, and sometimes it really. Handicap says. So yes, technology has speed up a lot of things for us because we can do a lot of calculations and things that would take us forever. It allows us to do things that we would not have been able to do before. Because it makes. The just things that used to be like really high end, you need expensive machinery and really well trained people to do and makes it accessible. To us through all these great programs and applications. But it’s also kind of a pain in the. ****. Right, all this technology requires updates and there’s glitches all the time, and you need Technical Support all the time. I mean, all the time, but way too much. Everything needs a password now, right? Most of the time you also need to get a code you have to go find your phone and then get this code and then put that in along with your password. Or you do a captcha.

So.

Ohh yeah, I love my technology, but it’s not always making things better. It just sometimes makes things different. Yet we’ve been trained to think we need these things instead of stopping and weighing out whether any particular gadget or feature is actually right for us in our individual needs. And OK, I will say I appreciate that I can call out to Siri and ask her where she is and my phone actually answers me. That can save some serious time. I wish my keys could do that, that would be great. Would be a real time saver. But I am perfectly OK with doing things like going over and turning on my own light or changing my thermostat. I don’t need Alexa. Or whoever it is to do that for me? Yeah, that stuff is cool. It’s fun, but is it necessary? And then, like I said, these things glitch sometimes and then turning on a light can become an exercise in frustration as you try to figure out what went wrong with Alexa and you know, you’re like, hey, I have this convenience and it should work. Damn it. And you just keep struggling with it. But how silly is it that we spend time and energy trying to make these sold, cold conveniences work properly? Now I do love what technology has done for disabled folks and that is where it truly shines. Our technology has really given so many people who don’t fit well into a world built for able bodied people. These technologies have given them tremendous freedom and independence that weren’t possible in just the not so distant past. So I love that. I’m not saying that we give up this stuff. Not at all. I couldn’t do this podcast without all this innovative technology. What I am saying is that most of us have bought into the idea that we should strive for easy, more convenient ways of doing things, and that includes what we might do in the studio. Or it might even affect the very direction of our art. Ponder this. Do you think all the eases and comforts of not just technology, but innovations of all kinds have in turn possibly as artists, among other things, handicapped us in some way? Like take AI, we really don’t have to learn how to actually draw or paint anymore. We could just. Ask an AI to put something together for us, and then we can manipulate the picture further and further with digital programs. It really makes me wonder if drawing with pen or pencil or painting is going to be a loss. While the creation of art be assisted by digital aids, so much of the time that our brains won’t be able to face a blank canvas or start from scratch because it doesn’t know how to form original ideas from our experiences and inspirations anymore. It just sends something else out to the web to find what we need. I doubt that that will be the case. For everyone who takes apart in the future, but I worry about it in the same way that I worry about present artists skipping the not so fun steps or looking for shortcuts in order to make it easier or to make their art in a quicker fashion. I think we lose skills when we depend on certain. Cuts and our brains will not learn to see the world as an artist needs to in order to do what most all artists have done in all the time that came before us. If we use these assist this assistive technology instead of learning skills, and I think that’s sad not just because of the lost skills, but because of the lost experiences. That artists who use these shortcuts will miss out on, and I suspect that the learning of those skills actually trains the brain to use innate creativity in ways that would be impossible for us to access without going into those challenging learning phases. And most of all, I wouldn’t want anyone to miss out on the intensity of pride and feeling of accomplishment that comes with doing something hard. Of course, I’m not going to say you shouldn’t look for more efficient ways to say mass produced low price point prints or earrings or whatever little stuff you sell to boost sales at a show. You should find ways to duplicate such things as quickly and cheaply as it makes sense for the quality that you need to. Out there. But if you do that with your bigger pieces, with the work that is the heart and soul of why you create, I think you are seriously shortchanging yourself. I mean, think about your greatest achievements. Were they easy or were they a long road of uncertainty and struggle? Do you even feel like something is an achievement? When it’s easy, isn’t it? The level of difficulty and or the uncertainty that you’d manage to finish the work at all and have it be what you hoped for that affords you the most pride when you finish a good piece that gives you that truly euphoric sense of accomplishment. I have long believed that that is what we should all be after. As artists, I believe that the real reward that we get is getting to that point where that feeling of accomplishment is just so amazing, so overwhelming, that is literally the best feeling you can possibly imagine. So this is what I suggest you do this week. Whether you think you take shortcuts or. Try spending time in your studio or even just planning your work while paying attention to when you **** up against things that are tricky or that you don’t have the skill for yet, or you just find boring. I mean, how do you handle it when you’re faced with that kind of thing? Do you look for ways to get around it, or maybe plan? Just to not do that step or maybe give up on the project altogether? Or do you look at it as a challenge or at the very least shrug and think, oh, it’s just part of what I got to do to get these great results that I’m so looking forward to. So, assuming you do that once you’re familiar with how you deal with the hard stuff that comes with creating your art, you can start to analyze what hard stuff is going to be really worth it, and what shortcuts are necessary to, say, make your nut for the month or as a stepping stone in your skill set that you are working on gaining. Are you up for that? You could just do it for one or two sessions and see what you find right? And it could be really revealing to you how many things you look for. Ohh how can I do this faster? How can I, you know, skip learning this skill and ask yourself what would it mean for me to learn that skill? What would it take? And Can you imagine the feeling of mastering a skill that you thought? Ohh it’s too hard or I found a shortcut, so why should I? But if you do, you will gain that feeling of accomplishment that you will never get by doing a shortcut. So yeah, take a little, you know, deep dive into your psyche and see where you’re at with that. And in the meantime, I can suggest some things that you can do to help you with hard work rather than push you to go around or ignore the hard stuff. There are things that you can do that. And help you take it on and not just accept it, but actually enjoy it. So here’s a couple of things that I always do first. Of all we. All have things that we dread. We all have things that we really don’t want to do right. Art isn’t just all fun and games usually, but there are things that we don’t like to do, like Polish beads or. Stretch canvas or organize the photos to go up on the website or condition clay or update your websites and those things that you dread. I want to suggest that when they’re on your list for the day, it is the very first thing that you do and the reason why is because when you have something that you dread, you will do all kinds of crazy stuff to keep yourself from having to do. Of it, and it’s going to cause you to procrastinate, it’s going to cause you to do things that are useless and time consuming or it might push you to just go on social media and find something nice cause like, I don’t want to do that. I want something that makes me feel good and I get that. But if you take care of it right away, it’s not hanging over your head. I mean, why do you want to have that thing just. Just hang in there all day, like waiting for it. You know it’s there and. You know, you gotta. Do it so just do it and then you’ll have this great feeling of accomplishment because you got rid of that thing and now you can look forward to this wonderful fun day. And secondly, it it really does save you time, I think you’d be very surprised at how many stupid, pointless, needless things you end up doing when you’re trying to put off something that you dread. So just tell yourself it is the very first thing I’m going to do today. Like I really don’t like making phone calls. I don’t know why. I just really don’t like getting on the phone with people I like in person and all that stuff. That’s great. But making a phone call, especially for something to solve a problem. Hit that so if it’s on my list, it moves to the top. I make those phone calls, I just do it. I don’t sit there and think, Oh my gosh, I don’t want to do this. Oh, I hate doing this. If you have that mindset where you’re talking to yourself about how much you hate it, all you’re doing is making yourself more like upset or more. You know, you just hate it more, right? So don’t do that. Just get up. And just do it and it’ll be gone. All right. So that’s one thing, just the dreaded stuff is the first thing you do during the day and then also with big jobs a lot of times our artwork, especially the bigger projects or our website or set up for business or any of these things seem really huge. Instead of thinking about the big picture of what it is that you have to accomplish, write down all the little things that you have to do. Break it down into little steps into small bites, and then each time you complete one of those things, especially if you put them on a list. I love lists. If you make a list of them and then you finish it, you can cross it out and it’s done. Crossing out things on a list. They always feel so. Great. They are tiny little rewards of accomplishment, so make a list. Do 1 little thing at a time, and eventually that list is going to be done in. Everything’s going to be. Stuff. So yeah, break it into small things small projects, and when the things you have to do are small, you are far less likely to look for those shortcuts, OK. And then create if you can create first thing in the day before you have fed your brain with all this social media stuff other people’s ideas. The housework. Anything. If you can create first thing in. The day you. Will be basically continuing an already relaxed state, so creativity is generally within the alpha brain wave category, right? And so is that time when you first wake. Alpha brain waves induce feelings of calm. It increases your creativity and it actually helps you absorb new information. In other words, you won’t be in an uptake state. You will be more willing to do things that are difficult. You will be more willing to learn, and it’s especially important. To create if you can again before you’ve fed yourself any social media or anything. That you get a lot of dopamine hit. From this is something that I want to look more into, but I’ve been reading some stuff about how constant dopamine hits that we get from all this input we have at our fingertips can kind of short circuit our patients because we get used to having dopamine hits often and whenever we want. So when we have to wait until we’ve completed something. And our artworker completed a piece right to get that dopamine hit that we get when we’ve accomplished it, which is what happens when you feel accomplishment, you get a hit of dopamine. You have to wait longer when you’re in the studio to get that, but after you’ve slept all night and your brain hasn’t been getting those hits constantly, you should have more patients and be more open to just settling in and creating and going with the flow because your brain waves are closer to that alpha state to start with. So if that’s a possibility for you. Create first thing in the morning or you can take a nap. Before you actually go into the studio and I do this a lot, every creative space I’ve had has had a place to nap. I find that very important, a necessary part of the studio is the bed or the lounge or whatever it is that you’ve got. And if you do take a nap, do it without background entertainment. Like sometimes I fall asleep to a podcast, but don’t do that when you’re gonna nap right before your studio. Right, you can do music. Maybe something like that. And if you’re just not tired and can’t nap, then just Daydream. Stare off into the you know, distance and think about nothing and actually go to my episode 20. The importance of doing nothing and listen to that about the how and why of why that works for helping with creativity. But in any case, you want to be in a mindset that is not anxious, is not frustrated, that is not. You know, high end dopamine hits from social media and stuff like that in order to get in there and do the hard work because you will have the patience and you won’t be sitting there thinking I just need quickly to get this finished because I need to feel that sense of accomplishment quickly, fast, because that’s what I’m used to from my online interactions, right. OK. And here’s another little point, because if you do get frustrated when you’re working in the studio, you may not want to just push yourself through it. You may want to back off a little bit, especially if you’re feeling yourself getting more and more frustrated. Stop and do something that’s easy and fun, like little pieces, little fun, easy pieces that you’ve done before and you know you can accomplish quickly. Or maybe you have. Other work in progress that you can turn to and work on that. Instead, just kind of shifting gears with which artwork you’re working. On what you don’t want to do is get into this kind of negative self talk or despair over your artwork or your abilities or whatnot. Do something that allows you to reaffirm that you have valuable skills and talent, and remind you of why you do the work. Reminds you of the joy that your creativity affords you, right or. If you just. Maybe just need a break? Go play with. Your dog or go take a hike or pour yourself a nice cup of tea or call a friend or vent with a fellow artist or anything of that sort. Just don’t get yourself into a really bad state where you’re super frustrated and it affects your work in an ongoing way. And if you do take a break from your work at that point, set yourself an appointment for the next time you go in. You know, like if you’re not a full time working artist, you can kind of go back whenever you don’t want to just leave it open-ended, set a date, tell yourself you’re gonna go back in an hour or the next day or the next weekend and just get yourself back in there because that last kind of sub park experience. Will be what we’ll be sitting with you until you get back in there. So get back on that horse, find that joy and gain a sense of accomplishment in your work again. OK, so one of. Other thing, on a regular basis and this could be once a month or once a week or ongoing, it’s gonna be whatever works for you to help make hard work easier. Learn something on a regular basis, learn a new technique, or learn a new or additional material or tool. Or maybe learn a whole new art. Form and if you don’t have time for something like that or can’t think of something in that area that you want to do, learn something else in a different area. It actually really doesn’t matter. You could learn the language or a DIY skill, or maybe a physical activity like training for 1/2 marathon or learn movement or balancing exercises. This is really about the process of learning and. What it will do? For you is. It’ll get you excited about new things. It will exercise your brain which will keep you healthy and happy and it will train you and your brain to do hard things and appreciate them. Because if you’re in this mode, where you’re constantly trying to make things easier, do things faster, it’s going to be difficult for you to face those things in your studio that do take time and take more effort than usual, or are things that you don’t know well. You may resist trying to improve yourself and learn those skills. And do the things which when you’re done, are going to make you feel amazing when you have accomplished those hard things that you have set as a goal for yourself, those are the things that make you feel just so energized and so mote. Created and really levels up that feeling of joy and self fulfillment in your artwork. So yeah, keep learning and keep challenging yourself and whatever fashion makes sense for you. And then question every time you are drawn into the potential for going for a shortcut, or even just into advertisements that promise to make your life better and easier. Or what. Ever remember to ask yourself if this thing that you’re contemplating or that’s being sold to you is really necessary. It’s OK if you just want to do something because it looks fun. Sun is always a good thing, right? That’s fine. But for a lot of what we’re sucked into buying, just maybe be conscious of whether you’re trying to solve a problem. Isn’t actually a problem and take pride in yourself when you choose to do things. These so-called hard. Because hard work is good, work, hard work makes us feel purposeful and gives our life direction, and energy makes us jump out of bed in the morning to get to it, and the end results. The accomplishments give us tremendous value and joy in our lives. So yeah, that wasn’t about politics like I said, but. One little thing, because I’ve been working for a get out the vote group because I just this is really, really. And so if you’re in the US and you’re not registered to vote or aren’t sure if you’re registered to vote, you still have time to get in your state deadline is at least 30 days out from the election, so the deadline would be October 6th or even later. A lot of places are much later. Today would even be better if you haven’t registered. Do it today. I know it can feel like a hassle. This whole voting thing, especially if you haven’t been. Keeping up with the candidates or the issues that are on the ballot, but your right to vote is one of the most valuable rights that you have. It’s your chance to have your voice heard about how you are governed and that affects literally every aspect of your life, even your art. So yeah, being an informed voter can be hard work, but hard work is good work, right? And there are websites that make that hard work actually kind of easy. My favorite is vote for 11.org. So VOTE 411.org it’ll help you register to vote and also give you a summary of all the people and issues on your ballot. You can even go through and mark off all your choices once you’ve learned about the people or about the amendments and whatnot, and then print out a list of your choices and you can take that with you to vote or take it. You know, over when you get your ballot and. Well then, so I highly encourage you to go there if you need something just to help you out, cause you don’t have a lot of time, but think about it. As artists, we are vocal people. Even if you don’t think you personally are. But you’re making art and unless you never share it, you are speaking to other people. You are sharing your voice and your view of the world. So why stop with your art? And I’m actually going to skip the call for support today because. Honestly, if you want to support me, if you want to support us as artists, Vote, Register, learn what you can, and consider encouraging the people around you to be. As well, if you’re not in the US and you don’t have any elections or what not coming. Out just be. Heard wherever you are, life has been relatively good for majority of us for a long time, but that doesn’t mean it’ll stay that way. One of the few little points of control that we have over the powers that be the future of our world is who we choose to lead. Yes, your voice does make a difference. Your hard work can change the world. Now, if you have any questions even about voting or just whatever, write me at the sagearts.com on the contact page. If you get the newsletter, which you can get on the homepage of the sagearts.com at the news and notices button, just click that and sign up for. The newsletter. It’ll let you know. That the new episodes are out and it will have any extra material that might go along with the episodes for you. And if you haven’t done so already, hit that follow button in your podcast player so you know when the episodes come out there. That’s another way to get those notices. And if you’d like, please leave me a review and let me know what you think and let other people know what you think. Because again, your voice matters. So I hope this episode has gotten you thinking, and you’ll look at the kind of work that you do and the kind of shortcuts that you take and really measure out what it is that’s important in your life. And be sure you’re not missing out on joy and fulfillment that you can get from doing the hard work. And while you’re doing that, don’t forget to feed that Muse go out and have new experiences. Be true to your personal voice and weirdness, and I’ll see you again next time on the stage arts. Podcast.

 

 

Posted in

SageBV

Leave a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *