Practice, iteration, discipline, commitment… do these concepts bring up a sense of dread or conjure images of tedious repetition when associated with your artistic process? Well, we might just change your view on that after listening to this episode.
In “Transformational Practice”, I speak with Ginger Davis Allman, the head guru and creator of The Blue Bottle Tree, an essential informational and tutorial resource for polymer makers of all levels. We talked about what practice really means for various creatives and how to incorporate practice and iteration into your process in ways that are inspiring, transformational, and just a joy to do. We take small detours into other best practices, whole life considerations, and how to properly pluralize the word chrysalis, which is important when talking about some snack foods, apparently.
Come join us and alter your take on the often tedious sounding idea of practice as a means for improving your creative work and your joy in the artistic process.
Contact my guest:
https://www.facebook.com/TheBlueBottleTree
https://www.instagram.com/thebluebottletree/
Other Resources mentioned:
https://acolourfuljourney.com/shop/
Contact my guest:
The Blue Bottle Tree – https://thebluebottletree.com/
Other Resources mentioned:
Samunnat Nepal https://acolourfuljourney.com/shop/
CONTACT SAGE
Email Sage via the contact form or send a voice mail (use the red button, bottom right) on the show website: http://thesagearts.com/contact/
And join Sage on social media:
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/thesageartspodcast/
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/TheSageArtsPodcast
GET WEEKLY PODCAST NOTICES & BONUS MATERIAL:
SUPPORT THIS PODCAST
Feel inclined to give back?
or Buy a STICKER! (Get 2 per order as of this release.)
CREDITS:
Cover design by Sage; Illustration by Olga Kostenko
Music by Playsound
For Transcript click on the episode here: https://rss.com/podcasts/thesagearts/
~
~
Transcript
AI transcribed, unedited. Please excuse the copious errors.
Ginger Davis Allman – And each time you learn something, and each time you get more of an understanding of capturing that female thing, that’s the magical mustiness that you’re. Trying to make.
Sage – Hello all, my enthusiastic creative friends. Thank you for joining me today on the Stage Arts podcast. I’m sage, your host and creative enabler for all you curious and adventurous makers out there. I apologize that this is getting out ad. Late, but after kind of overfeeding, my muse and Maui last week, I came home and had a really hard time getting back to work, especially since I had to do my taxes, which is always hard to get into, right?
Ginger Davis Allman – So I got.
Sage – A little behind, but I promise it’s well worth the wait and I won’t have you wait long to get into a really wonderful interview today. So let’s get a couple. Of shout outs in really quickly. And then we’ll get right down to. It This past week or so, most of the comments and notes I got were in regards to my trip, but also about the your path, your Groove episode, which is episode 11. So a few episodes back, it’s kind of funny how people will go back and find that thing they need all at the same. Time like the universe just prods. Us collectively or something? I don’t know how that works, but the synchronicity. Always fascinates me because it happens over and over again. So several people wrote about doing the priorities exercise I suggested in that episode. Mostly they did it and found it super helpful, but I was surprised myself to hear from Wendy Moore, who is in Nepal at the time of this record, so I wouldn’t have thought she’d have time to listen, but. Apparently she did. And Wendy, she is an amazing soul. She works with Samna Nepal, which is a grassroots organization empowering women who are vulnerable to violence and poverty in the eastern side of the country in Nepal. They help with education, legal assistance, housing, etcetera. Wendy was initially invited to teach them jewelry.
Ginger Davis Allman – Making as part.
Sage – Of their objective to give the women self-sufficiency. But she has since become an integral part of that organization. I’ll put a link in the show notes. So you can look. At and buy some of the jewelry if. You’d like or read some of their stories. Really touching stories and it’s such a great organization. So in any case, Wendy did this exercise from the your path to your group episode, only to confirm what she already suspected were her reasons for creating. And what she found aligns with some things I’ve been thinking about a lot recently, so I’m actually going to do an episode about this probably next week, but she said that she creates because it makes her truly notice, makes her stop, and look, there was some of this that I touched on in the feature news episode as well. But I do want to talk about singing as an important and multi. Pasted concept for creatives when I was coaching how to see was a really eye opening part of the conversation for a lot of my clients, no pun intended there. So I think that’s going to be an important concept for a lot of you as well, but in. The meantime, I thought. Her comment would be a good reminder for all of us to really stop and see what is around us and then think about how you look at the world and what you notice and bring that to the episode next week to weigh against the concepts that I’ll talk about in terms of seeing. And also a quick shout out to some. Of my cheerleaders. Because I have. Several of them that are always commenting. And always giving me feedback, especially Esther Ramiro and Coral Steingel. Thank you ladies for following and letting me know what you think about the podcast. Feedback is so essential for me. I really want to make this show something that you need, not just what I think you need. So let me know what you think. You can send me an e-mail on the website of. Sagearts.com. Just go to the contact page and fill out the e-mail form or use the leave me message button. You can also comment on social media at Facebook or Instagram. At this Age Arts podcast. And if you’re getting your muse fed listening to the podcast, you can give back also on that same website, thish-r.com on the homepage, scroll halfway down to find the buy me a coffee and PayPal support buttons. OK, let’s go join my guest for this episode conversation. My guest today is Ginger Davis Almond. She’s a writer, teacher and artist who helps makers create, particularly with Palmer Clay. So thank you for joining us today, Ginger.
Ginger Davis Allman – Thank you. I’m really excited to be here.
Sage – Yeah, so am I, junior. I have known each other for a while and we can talk up a storm. So we’ll try to keep this, you know, with in subject matter, you know, we’ll still have stories and all that fun stuff. But let’s start with ginger. You tell us a little bit about yourself, what it is that you do and your creative focus, that kind of thing.
Ginger Davis Allman – Well, I write a website called the Bottle Tree and it is about creating with Paul Mcclay and I’ve been writing it for about 10 years and that’s been my focus. A lot of teaching, a lot of writing, things like that. So that’s what I do.
Sage – You’re really considered the source for polymer clay like technical information. Which is just so. Cool that we have like our. Little kind of technical experts, everybody just like, well, just ginger probably has something on that probably is an article on that. Know kind of thing.
Ginger Davis Allman – Yeah, yeah. Well, I’m insanely curious. I can’t help myself.
Sage – Yeah, that’s great.
Ginger Davis Allman – You know if. I’ve got a question. I have to find. Out I have to.
Sage – Find the. Yeah, I think that’s why we connected initially cause I was the same way because I used to do a lot of testing early on and then you were just going gang gang Busters.
Ginger Davis Allman – So that’s. What I do?
Sage – So I was like, I’m like. To do it. I don’t need to. Do that part. Now, where do you live?
Ginger Davis Allman – Let me Springfield, MO, and right smack.
Sage – OK.
Ginger Davis Allman – In the middle. Of the country in an area called the Ozarks.
Sage – Some of us know that from.
Ginger Davis Allman – The show anything as the show wasn’t, it wasn’t even filling with the Ozarks. So guess. It looks like that here no.
Sage – I’ve been through some parts of those arcs. That were very, very green. I remember that.
Ginger Davis Allman – It’s like, yeah, broccoli, it’s. Like Pickles look like Brock.
Sage – The trees are kind of like broccoli. Come to think of it. So OK, so you live in a broccoli ridden. Area of the country. And and you run this business, do you have any other work outside of the Blue bottle tree?
Ginger Davis Allman – No, this is all consuming. Doing what I do, it’s all consuming at 50-60 hours a week. Most of the time doing this, even if I wanted. To work elsewhere, there wouldn’t be enough. Me to do it.
Sage – Not enough me for sure. Do you have any passions outside of it? That kind of defines you, so you can just kind of get a big, full picture of who you are.
Ginger Davis Allman – Yeah, I’m really fascinated. With social psychology for all of things.
Sage – Oh yeah.
Ginger Davis Allman – Yeah, I’m really fascinated with what makes people tick and why we do what we do. And I think that ties in with art, believe it or not, because I think you know at the core, I’m curious why we do what we do.
Sage – Oh, absolutely.
Ginger Davis Allman – It’s also interesting from a marketing and a teaching. It ties in together, so I’m really fascinated with that. It’s it’s helped me understand my world and my part in it and how I can engage with others and help them reach their goals. So it’s like all tied in and connected.
Sage – Yeah, very cool. I think that kind of ties into our subject today, which we’ll get to in a moment because I want to do all the fun. Little warm up questions too. So first of all, how about if someone were to write a biography of you, what would the title of the biography be?
Speaker
It’s OK.
Ginger Davis Allman – It would be. I want to know.
Sage – Ohh yeah.
Ginger Davis Allman – So makes sense.
Sage – Pretty much Stinger.
Ginger Davis Allman – This drives me. This is what drives me. I swear. I have so many things I’m curious about and figuring them out, understanding them, learning about them, it’s what keeps me going. It’s the most fascinating. Thing in the world.
Sage – Yeah, absolutely. OK, here’s one pretty much makes every edit cuz I think this is such an interesting question to ask people. If you’re a planner or a pantser and a pantser, somebody just does things by the seat of their.
Ginger Davis Allman – I have a combination of both. I am a systems person. I have a lot of systems in place, probably because I’m so massively ADHD. So I have all kinds of systems I make this I’m quite well organized because otherwise nothing. Had ever happened? Because I’d just be a disaster. But I love flying by the seat of my pants and I am. I picked a joke all the. Time with my husband because he’s Mr.
Sage – Uh huh.
Ginger Davis Allman – I love to fly off cliffs.
Sage – In little fashion, because that would be interesting.
Ginger Davis Allman – No, you know you, you. I don’t like to plan things to the NTH degree. I much prefer to just get in there and do it. And I joke that I fly off cliffs. And I figure it out. On the way down.
Sage – Ah, OK.
Ginger Davis Allman – But I’m enough of a planner. I tend to look around. Before I jump. So I have. I don’t jump unless I’ve. Got a pretty good. I know what’s going to happen when I do, but I love that rush, that adrenaline rush of. Flying by the seat of your pants.
Sage – Yeah, I totally would have thought you would have. Planner from.
Ginger Davis Allman – No, no, no, no, no.
Sage – From the outside? Yeah, you’re so organized, and your newsletters and your website and stuff, there’s so much information, it’s very structured and really easy to get around and find all that information. So yeah, I thought you had totally been a plan there.
Ginger Davis Allman – Yeah. No, I’m. Both. I’m both.
Sage – That’s great. OK, how about do you have any favorite guilty pleasure foods?
Ginger Davis Allman – OK, this is here’s the story here.
Sage – Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.
Ginger Davis Allman – First of all, I love all food, OK? Because hello.
Sage – Food’s good.
Ginger Davis Allman – OK, food is good. But I think that my favorite guilty pleasure food would have to be puffy Cheetos.
Sage – That’s kind of like my funions.
Ginger Davis Allman – Hoping she does. OK, OK. My husband calls them crunchy crystalises.
Sage – Crunchy crystals.
Ginger Davis Allman – And then I constantly have to correct him and say. That’s not the plural of crystals.
Sage – What’s the plural? For salaries, that’s a great word.
Speaker
Isn’t that a great?
Sage – Yeah, salades.
Ginger Davis Allman – Word Chrysalides is the plural of chrysalis, so chrysalis is that not technically correct. It’s chrysalides so.
Sage – So you you crunch on bright neon orangey chrysalides.
Ginger Davis Allman – Chris, how would you sleep? That is my favorite. Guilty pleasure.
Sage – That’s great, although now I’m like sad every time I. Eat one, be like it goes. A butterfly that could have been.
Ginger Davis Allman – Oh no.
Sage – Do you have any weird things that you’ve eaten that you’re like? No one, no one does this.
Ginger Davis Allman – OK. In my family it’s peanut butter and Pickles. What was fascinating is my mother and my father both brought this to, you know, to our family. They grew up eating peanut butter and Pickles in different ways. My mother is peanut butter and sweet. Eagles and my father eats peanut butter, mayonnaise and dill Pickles, which is my favorite, and I love it.
Sage – OK. Are you saying peanut butter plus mayonnaise plus Pickles? Or is there something called peanut butter mayonnaise?
Ginger Davis Allman – No, no. You take peanut butter and then you put mayonnaise over. It has to be mayonnaise, not miracle whip.
Sage – And he’s never been pregnant.
Ginger Davis Allman – Put peanut butter. It does. It’s one of those things. Just try peanut butter and Jelly Pickles.
Sage – I don’t know.
Ginger Davis Allman – Because you know, sometimes things just have. A like a. Magical combination flavor that is one of them.
Sage – Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Ginger Davis Allman – It’s like you don’t expect it and. You’re like, well, it’s stupid.
Sage – That’s that’s an adventurous little food thing for some time.
Ginger Davis Allman – With this feeling weird.
Speaker
You said this.
Sage – I you totally fulfilled that question to the teeth. OK, now tell us about your creative journey. How did you come to crafts and arts, and how did you become such a primary source of information for polymer crafters?
Ginger Davis Allman – It’s interesting because. You don’t always know. Where you’re going to end up when you. Obviously I I had no idea that. This is what was going to happen. I’ve been a lifelong cereal crafter. Crafting has always been something I’ve done since I. Was a little kid. I had a very strong art interest as a child and when I went to university, I was. Torn between science and art, it was a 5050 on that one, and I had. A huge art. Ground. I’m also a huge procrastinator, so craft came into play when I was working on my master’s thesis. I never got more cross stitch and stained glass done. Then when I was supposed to be doing my thesis. So there’s that. I got into Paul Mccleave when my kids were little and then later on when I had more time, you know when they were older. I started exploring and started well. Let me try. It and see let me. See what happened? So I did that. With Paul Mcclay and next thing you know. I’d write an. Article about it because I figured other. People wanted to know too.
Sage – Right.
Ginger Davis Allman – So I started writing about all these. Things and the. More I did it. Of course, the more people started asking questions and, yeah, questions the way, the more answers you know. So they just took off and that’s that’s what happened.
Sage – Yeah, we were both taking off at the same time. Remember that. Was 2011 was when the magazine started and I think you just started putting stuff. Out officially into.
Ginger Davis Allman – Right. Yeah, 2012 is when. I started with the bottle tree.
Sage – Yeah, yeah. Now, as far as your own artwork, well, first of all, do you get to? Do much of your own. Art because you’re so busy.
Ginger Davis Allman – No, not really.
Sage – Yeah, yeah.
Ginger Davis Allman – That’s the frustrating thing. One of the things I decided to do this year was starting January, as I said, this is silly that I’m not living my life in essence for myself. So I started setting aside, dedicating time to do that. So I do I do some a little a little better.
Sage – So this year has gotten a. Yeah, you’ve built your business identity around teaching others to improve their work, and their process. Have you been able to identify the source of that passion? Like, why do you like to share so much?
Ginger Davis Allman – My mother was a teacher and so I was raised by a person who constantly pulled us aside and said look at. This isn’t. This interesting. I had that kind of a childhood. Also my father. My father’s actually an artist now. He started doing that later in life. He just shifted and he’s now a sculptor. He does huge metal sculptures.
Sage – Oh, nice.
Ginger Davis Allman – So I think some of that, my father, some of it’s. My mother and some of it believe. It or not is. My husband, my husband is a problem. I jokingly call. In the compliance officer, because he is one of. Those, and that’s just his personality.
Sage – I love that compliance officer.
Ginger Davis Allman – Different things. The beautiful thing about that is he taught me to see problems and art and creativity are just problems to solve.
Sage – Right, exactly.
Ginger Davis Allman – Between my family and. Husband and you know, life itself, that just kind of all combines together and I live in a world of ideas and. Problems to solve?
Sage – Yeah, that’s all.
Ginger Davis Allman – If that makes any sense.
Sage – Yeah, and oh, absolutely.
Ginger Davis Allman – So that’s I think where that came from.
Sage – Yeah, I say that all the time. Art is a problem solving process. I know that seems to take a little of the magic out of it for some people to call it a problem solving thing, but it it’s that’s what we’re doing. We want to see something that’s in our heads out in the world and you have to figure out how to do that. So when we first started talking about bringing you on, we talked about a whole bunch of different things. So we ended up talking about practice and its related processes like iteration and so. So what are your primary thoughts and philosophies concerning practice?
Ginger Davis Allman – You know, practice is an interesting one. I think that when you say practice, a lot of people will assume practice means like when we had piano lessons, when we were a kid, your mother made you sit in a chair and practice. That’s boring.
Sage – They’re doing things over and over again.
Ginger Davis Allman – Right. Nobody wants. To do the same thing over and. Over again, when I think of practice now. I think of. It as a practice as a cohesive process of exploration over time where you take your understanding of something from one place and. You go toward another place. Your practice will change overtime. There are times that you’re more fascinated with one aspect of it. You may be more interested in figuring out voice or at another time you may be more. Interested in figuring out depth or construction, or we finding a specific technique, but I think practice. The way I define it is that process of going from one place to another, intentionally improving what your Rep. So far.
Sage – So what are some of the other angles that you came up with as you considered this before you sat? Down to talk.
Ginger Davis Allman – Well, a lot of people will make something once and then never make it again. They try something and they run into an obstacle and then. They go is look.
Sage – Right.
Ginger Davis Allman – And no, you don’t suck. You just haven’t developed it yet. You’re still in baby steps. This is like looking at a. Toddler and they fall down and. Like they’re looking good.
Sage – I’m never walking again.
Speaker
You know, you pick just.
Ginger Davis Allman – It there’s it’s a practice. It’s a it’s a process. It takes time. It takes doing. It over and over and over again.
Sage – So really talking about the aspect of taking risks, trying absolutely.
Ginger Davis Allman – And another aspect of practice is that a lot of times people they want to play and they feel that practice is not related to play. And they say, well, I don’t ever want to make something again. I don’t want to make something twice because they love that feeling of going into playful exploration with new expectations and. There’s nothing wrong. Do with that, but if you don’t look at your work systematically, at least on some level, and ask yourself, OK, what didn’t work. What aspect of this would I like to attempt again?
Sage – All right.
Ginger Davis Allman – What went wrong here? That type of thing? If you’re not doing that, then you’re not going to improve and you have to be able to look at that. Which I call practice and try it again. Maybe not the same project. But aspects of that project again, you need to do that iteration and that is not incompatible with play. You’re still playing, but if you just make the same thing over and over and over again, or if you refuse. To make the. Same thing over and over again, I think. That you’re not. Going to go.
Sage – So the main thing that we’re looking to gain through practice is growth.
Ginger Davis Allman – I think so, yeah. I mean, where do? You go with. Growth, you know, what’s your goal? Lots of times your goal is just that you want to create effectively so that you can get. Your ideas down because there’s nothing more. Frustrating than having a voice inside of you. And something that you want to say. And you don’t have the techniques, you don’t have the facility with your hands. You don’t have the understanding of the material. That’s a very frustrating place to be in. It’s also really easy to beat yourself. Up when you’re in that position.
Sage – So it’s really like helping growth in terms of whatever your goals are in terms of reducing frustration in terms of gaining skills so that you can say what you need to say, create what you. Need to create.
Speaker
Right.
Sage – It almost sounds like practice in terms of the definitions that we’re kind of putting out there is that it’s more about your view of what you’re doing, how you’re going to see your growth and how you’re going to approach it through your intention and through whatever it is that you feel like you’re lacking.
Ginger Davis Allman – Yeah, I think so. It’s like this. Is the third time I’ve done the. 100 day project. I’ve completed it twice before. One year I did veneers. And another one I did vessels so this. Shielding beads so each day I. Do at least one bead.
Sage – And real quickly, tell everybody what the 100 day project is.
Ginger Davis Allman – The 100 day project is just an Internet thing. People just work on whatever their chosen project is. They define the project for themselves and they commit to doing that for 100 days and they hashtag the 100 day project right. So you just post on Instagram or wherever your social media is.
Sage – Yeah, so self defined, very specific practice 400 days.
Speaker
Right.
Sage – And it’s not doing the same thing like I started doing it and I was doing textures and poetry at the same time and posting together, which ended up being kind of a big thing. But like I never made the same texture in 100 days and you never made the same veneer in 100 days. But you’re really digging in.
Ginger Davis Allman – Right. And it it seems like that would be. Boring to make a beat. Every day well. It’s not like I’m just each day making the exact same style of beat.
Sage – Right.
Ginger Davis Allman – That would that. Would be orange.
Sage – All right.
Ginger Davis Allman – Everyday I’m trying. Something different. I’m exploring a different aspect of it.
Sage – Right.
Ginger Davis Allman – I’m changing the material. I’m changing it technique. I’m. Even exploring things like baking processes, but if I’m. Curious about something? Then I explore it through. The lens of this project and that. Allows me to stay. Focused because, let me tell you, I’ve got my **** in the chair every day and I will for. 100 days. So this gives me a constrained, specific focused reason why I get to do something.
Speaker
Right.
Ginger Davis Allman – Cause if I sit. Down and I. Say OK this. Year I’m going to do more art.
Sage – Yeah, no you need.
Ginger Davis Allman – Still happens, so this constrained specific.
Sage – More specifics, yeah.
Ginger Davis Allman – It gets my **** in the chair. And I I.
Speaker
Right.
Ginger Davis Allman – Think it’s really helpful.
Sage – Well, I love that bringing that into this conversation about practice, because like you’re saying you don’t want to necessarily do the same thing over and over again. And that’s the definition of. Iteration, right?
Ginger Davis Allman – Actually to me iteration is do something evaluate make the. Change do it again.
Sage – OK.
Ginger Davis Allman – But not the same exact thing. Iteration is evolution.
Sage – OK, all right. Cause iteration was brought up as well as a type of practice, but I find the 100 day project interesting as a way to look at practice. It isn’t about duplication, but that it’s exploratory. It’s feeding the muse because it’s all about that curiosity. So you’re practicing, but because you have to make something 100 times. You are having to really reach and discover and do things you might not have done had you not been pushed to do this 100 times every day. I did texture, I had a different form, different colors, and then I was trying all different kinds of tools and combining them with different other aspects of the design that really pushed my thought processes. So practice. Like with this hundred day project is often about seeing the different directions we could go and push ourselves.
Speaker
Right.
Sage – I think that would be an encouraging thought for people who think that practice is going to be boring and tedious.
Ginger Davis Allman – I also think that having those constraints is actually incredibly freeing, because there’s nothing more intimidating than sitting down blank sheet of paper and you have way too many possibilities and that becomes really intimidating. So having a constrained project means that every day I know what I’m going to make. I don’t have to waste anytime with that. We’re going to meet. I mean, I yeah, you do have a little.
Sage – You’re always, yeah.
Ginger Davis Allman – Bit of that, but generally they’re like guardrails, I’ve got guardrails so that I’m I know I have.
Speaker
Right.
Ginger Davis Allman – To stay somewhat on this road and.
Sage – Right.
Ginger Davis Allman – And that is very freeing because I’m no longer intimidated by, Oh my gosh, it’s really I think I’m a huge fan of constrained projects every time I’ve undertaken one, it has been life changing.
Sage – What am I going to do? Yeah, yeah.
Ginger Davis Allman – Absolutely. Like change.
Sage – So the thing about limitations, interestingly enough, does push you to think beyond and really dig down in the well of information and ideas that you have to find things that will fulfill what little space you have to work in.
Speaker
Right.
Ginger Davis Allman – The first time I did one of these constrained projects, I did a photography project years and years and years ago on Flickr. They had something called the 365 days project versus 5 and you took a self-portrait every day for a year. And let me tell you, you get really sick of your face.
Sage – OK.
Ginger Davis Allman – So you come up with. All kinds of creative ways. What you end up. Doing is when you take. A picture of yourself in a mirror. Passing in a. Mirror you put a camera across the street and you take a picture of yourself in a. Reflection and you? Get artsy. With it you get really, really, really creative. Live with it. You try something on. One day and you’re like, well. You know what that. Was cool, but that wasn’t. Exactly what I had in mind. OK. Well, what would I? Do differently this next time. If we’re going to do this again, how? Would it change it?
Sage – Right.
Ginger Davis Allman – OK. Well, like in the case of photography, you. Might want to do it with trees and it. Or maybe it would be better if I. Get my hair differently. I don’t know. Going to change, how would you modify it? And then the next day you make these modifications and you say, OK, well, this is closer. To what I had in mind. You know, there’s a concept that I’ve talked about quite a bit in my writing about our artistic journey is a process. OK, we all have an idea deep down in ourselves of something that we want to express, you know, certain clothes. Are you? Versus not you.
Sage – Yeah, right.
Ginger Davis Allman – We all have an osmus and I think in our art there’s an OSU. There’s a thing about you that’s deep down inside that feels right. It just feels right. And I think that our art is a process of trying to capture that and trying to recreate that. And you never quite get there. Because your your skills are. Not perfect. Your translation of your concepts is never quite there. And every day, every time. And every art piece that you make. You get generally closer. But not always. And each time you learn something, and each time you get more of an understanding of capturing that ephemeral thing, that’s the magical asness that.
Sage – Right.
Ginger Davis Allman – You’re trying to make.
Sage – Right.
Ginger Davis Allman – And I think that iteration is just. The constant over and over and over and over and over again of getting. Some the first time you tried it to. Closer, I don’t think. You ever get there? I don’t think. Any of us ever finally get there? And do this. Magical masterpiece. And that’s it.
Sage – Because that would be the end. It would be like getting to the end of. The Internet or something? And I don’t want to get to the end.
Ginger Davis Allman – Right. So that’s what I mean by practice and iteration is just keep going.
Sage – Uh huh.
Ginger Davis Allman – That’s like that personal development thing about how it’s like the layers of an onion you just constantly pulling back the layers and. Pulling them more and more and more. And I think that. Art is that iteration that gets you there.
Sage – So the practice and the iteration is really about digging down, pulling back the layers and being persistent in that and dedicated it sounds like.
Ginger Davis Allman – I think dedication is a is an important. Aspect of it. I think it gets. A bad rap dedication sounds like again sitting. In the chair and being forced to do your.
Sage – The the whole idea of practice, it’s like when you play guitar, if you play guitar, you can’t go a week without playing it or you start losing your calluses and then it makes it really hard. So part of the idea of of practice with guitar, sometimes it’s just keeping your calluses up there, even if you’re not able to put a whole lot of time into it, I think that would be true with art or any kind of making.
Ginger Davis Allman – Right.
Sage – And that’s what sounds like we’re really talking about keeping it fresh and keeping it in front of you and keeping it on the top of your mind. So it doesn’t necessarily have to be like every morning at 9:00 AM, I am going to be. At my studio table.
Ginger Davis Allman – I do think you need to make it a priority if you expect to see improvement.
Sage – Right.
Ginger Davis Allman – That being said, I’m also a fan of a concept that I call TV knitting and that is there are times that you need the soothing, repetitive, easy, simple immersion. In Beauty, and I think that a lot of this like to do. Things like diamond painting or coloring or paint, you know, paint by number, yeah. We we’re just so. Flooded that you don’t have the bandwidth for that kind of process and discipline and development and practice, but I think that if you stay there, don’t be surprised if you don’t develop.
Sage – Give yourself a break. I actually talked a little bit about that in the last episode where I discuss. A little bit. About about brain health as a way to feed your muse, you take care of your brain and you give it lots of things to work off of. But it does need downtime, and in this day and age, we always have 20,000 things that are vying for our attention and our brain is trying to juggle all of this stuff. And one of the things about artwork or any kind of making where you can get into a flow. Does give your brain a rest, so yeah, practice is good. But don’t overdo it and give yourself some down time with like motor skills. You know, the more you work with clay, the more your fingers get to know and understand the material.
Ginger Davis Allman – Very much. So very much so.
Sage – Right. And the same thing with knitting or crocheting or gosh, anything where you have to work hands on with the materials, your brain finger connection becomes refined just through the the act of working with that material. So let’s practice too right, because it’s improving the skill, it’s improving muscle memory.
Ginger Davis Allman – That’s definitely true, especially with new makers. One of the things that they struggle with is not having the fine motor skills. Right now I’m doing this big project and one of the most common things that I get. Asked is how do. You make them so perfectly round. It’s practice and you’ll make them round if you make a lot of beads, but I cannot tell you how because your body’s going. To do it differently than my body. Does it? It’s like riding a bike, you. Have to get on it and there’s a lot of things. Especially handling your materials, you’re going to learn that by doing it and. That is to a certain. Extent, repetition and you do it by doing it. You develop your eye hand coordination by doing it, yeah.
Sage – Right. So practice is also about getting your skills done, getting control over your medium or the processes that you need. Work with.
Ginger Davis Allman – That’s part of mastery, and I think that mastery is the other part of what we’re talking about here. I guess that’s the goal is that mastery is. Where you end up.
Sage – Yeah, and we should probably define that when we’re talking about mastery, we’re not talking about you becoming a master the way the rest of the world sees it, but that you have a particular idea of where you want to be and mastery is you getting to that place, right?
Ginger Davis Allman – Well, in my opinion, mastery would be being able to wield your skills like a tool to be able to have the facility of knowing how to get where you. Want to go?
Sage – Right.
Ginger Davis Allman – It’s not about being the best, it’s not about being a master so that you can get your, you know, your gold stamp of approval from social media and your well, you know, whatever it is about becoming to the point where.
Sage – Right.
Ginger Davis Allman – It is not an anxiety filled problem. Because you have worked it through it enough that you have enough confidence in mastery.
Sage – To know that you can go in and and accomplish. Most likely accomplish. I mean all art is and all making is risk on some level, cause you don’t know if you’ve never done it before, especially, but the idea that you practice enough so that your mastery is at such a level that you feel like you have enough control to make a good stab at it.
Speaker
Right.
Ginger Davis Allman – Yeah, yeah, right, right.
Sage – Yeah, that will actually probably allow you to be more adventurous with your work and to try different things because your master is at such a level that you know that you can accomplish the basic things that need to be the underpinning for what you’re doing and that the more risky stuff is, can I get this image across the way I want to? Can this thing in my head look like what it is when I put it outside into my material?
Ginger Davis Allman – I also think it’s really important to mention here that when we’re talking about mastering or getting somewhere, we’re not talking about a hierarchy. You want to be a better version of you. We all have different things we’re dealing with, struggling with. We all have different abilities, different everything. You’re just not. On the same journey, you’re just not.
Sage – Can’t compare. And I think that’s a really important thing to emphasis. And I do that a lot throughout this podcast is to understand that whenever we talk about something that we’re trying to give you information to help improve what you’re doing improvement is based on your definition of where you wanna go and where you wanna end at. So yeah, we do kind of say that a. Lot but for very for a very good reason. I think now. For some people, the idea of practice or any kind of guidelines, they just steer away from that. They just don’t want to think about that. They just want to go in there and. Whatever, do you think that this is problematic? I mean with their end goal being to improve themselves on some level, do you think they can do that without having to think about practice? If you think these are things that are, you know. Pancing it at the studio. Table is still going to get them where they need to go.
Ginger Davis Allman – I don’t think. You’re ever going to see improvement without risk, but there may be lots. Of other things that they’re working. On and they may not be at a place right then that they have the room to do further growth where they’re at there growth is not linear. We have to remember that you might get better in some things in some areas of your life, and then that gives you the ability to then. Work on others.
Sage – Right.
Ginger Davis Allman – We have to be careful about beating ourselves up. About not being where we. Could be, but I don’t think you can get better in massive air quotes. I don’t think you can evolve without going through a process of intentionally looking at your work, seeking solutions and applying them.
Sage – Yeah, I love that you bring up the whole person aspect of making things, of doing art, crafts, whatever. It’s not like it exists separate from the rest of your life and the rest of things that you have in medicine and health, there’s a concept body burden where some people can handle things better because they don’t have as much to deal with. Or the body. Just does something more efficiently or whatnot. Everybody has different variations on it depending on what they’ve dealt with in the past, depending on what they are dealing with now and depending on what their abilities are, and I think that’s true in creating artwork, what you’re able to do and how much you’re able to get out of, say, doing a regular practice, whether it’s something like the 100 day project or simply iteration and improving on what you’ve done before. You have a certain capacity. For at that specific time and yeah, we shouldn’t beat ourselves up over because maybe we don’t have the capacity for it cause our body burden or our creative burden, like our energy, that our mind is using up in other areas may reduce the amount we can use when we get to the studio table because that’s something I think a lot of us forget. Like we do beat ourselves up over not. Being able to do things and it’s like, wait a minute, what else is going? On in your life, don’t beat yourself up. If you’ve got 100,000 things going on, you’ve got serious, serious considerations that are weighing on you.
Ginger Davis Allman – Right.
Speaker
Right.
Sage – I think Art is an escape from a lot of that stuff at the same time.
Ginger Davis Allman – Yes, I think that a lot of people come to art because they need the therapy aspect, they need that peace, they need the flow state, they need the pleasure. When you look at my writing, I write about the technical aspects of polymer clay. I think because of that, people assume that I. Believe that the only thing you need are those technical. Things this is a. Tiny, tiny, tiny part of what it takes to evolve as a creative, and I do personally believe that your personal, emotional, psychological, spiritual, whatever your growth as a human is very much a part of your ability to evolve as a creative.
Speaker
They’re very, very.
Ginger Davis Allman – Very deeply connected. And I think that a lot of people who are frustrated with their growth process, they assume it’s because they don’t know techniques and I’m sorry, techniques are actually a small aspect of what you. Inside your body is where your battle is your heart, your soul, your mind, your spirit, your habits. Those that’s you. That’s life is a journey. Life is a very hard journey.
Sage – Yeah, yeah.
Ginger Davis Allman – I shouldn’t. I don’t want to be a downer because I. Think it’s a wonderful journey.
Sage – No, but we do have tough times. Not just personally, but within our our artwork, whether we manage to do what we want to do, whether something sells or doesn’t sell. But when we do make it whatever version make it is. For you it is. Just such a wonderful place to be. So without risk, you’ll never have that kind of joy.
Speaker
OK.
Ginger Davis Allman – You have a less. Than successful outcome of a creative project. It’s very easy to look at that and go. Well, I saw don’t go there.
Sage – Terrible self talk. Yeah, I like to say that every single time you sit down at the studio table, you’ve succeeded cause you’re there. And every time you make something, whether it succeeds in whatever version you are trying to succeed, even if it doesn’t, you did it. You went through that process and the fact that you did that is kind of what we’re talking about in terms of practice. You spent the time trying to do that, and you’ll learn something, and you’ll you’ll have the ability to look at what you did and learn from it. So every time you sit down, do something, you succeed. In terms of. When did you discover the advantages of it? Or did you have any epiphanies at some point in your creative journey that you said? This is really important to me.
Ginger Davis Allman – Yeah, as a child, I was always. Creative I always did crafts. My first summer after graduating high school, I remember my mother gave me a sewing machine for graduation. Very boring.
Sage – You know what? That’s what I got for. Graduation too.
Ginger Davis Allman – I thought I was the only one.
Sage – Yeah, that’s funny.
Ginger Davis Allman – Yeah, I decided that I was going to make some clothes and I had no patience whatsoever because I just. Wanted to get it.
Speaker
I just wanted to get it.
Ginger Davis Allman – I wanted to so I would soon. Two things real fast. I never finished any seams. I never. I didn’t press anything open. I was just zooming through super fast. And of course, everything turned out kind of bad at the time, I had never seen any nice homemade clothing until I started paying more attention. If you press every seam after you sew it, then it looks better. Everything works better and I started being much more. Deliberate in my creation in my sewing. Even though it was killing me, because personally that’s not. I didn’t want to get a drunk, but. I realized that I had to slow myself down and I had to do every step intentionally and do every step well, and then my finished product was so much better.
Sage – Right.
Ginger Davis Allman – And I learned that the importance of. Patience gave me a. Better outcome and I used that same knowledge. Edge in everything I do now. Even though I cannot wait to get those. Beads in the oven and. Get it baked so I can see what it looks like. All of that. I know I have to take the steps and be deliberate. In what I’m doing. It’s just going to be crowded.
Sage – Yeah, yeah. So that it it helps well one knowing that the outcome will be better. So maybe it’s less torturous to. To do those things. We don’t want to do, but also it plays into the whole idea of practice in and of itself. If you’re doing those things and you’re doing them well and doing them right, they become second nature. And they’re not such a big deal. Couple less fun questions one and this kind of feeds into my last episode, which was about feeding your muse. What do you do to keep yourself inspired? And it doesn’t have to be just about artwork, but I mean, you have to come up with ideas all the time for what it is that you are giving people at the blue bottle tree. And your insiders. So what do you do to keep yourself inspired? What do you how do you feel?
Ginger Davis Allman – I think the biggest thing is just. To engage in life. I’m not a big passive consumer on things being fed to me if I catch myself passively consuming, I try to. Stop it, right? Away getting caught in reels, just mindlessly watching TV or anything like that. I’m very intentional about what I choose to bring into my world. Because I want to have time. To engage in life.
Sage – Well, do you have any recent new or novel experiences that feed your muse or something you’re planning that might give other listeners ideas for good, inspiring adventures?
Ginger Davis Allman – I don’t necessarily know that. This qualifies, but whenever the weather is good, I like to get away into the woods. I’ve found a place where I can get away off trail and I take my backpacking stuff and I. Go sit in. The woods for like 3 or 4 days at a time.
Sage – Oh wow.
Ginger Davis Allman – With no phone. No, nothing alone.
Sage – That’s great.
Ginger Davis Allman – And it’s bliss. It’s bliss. So I do that when I can.
Sage – That’s great. Just see, I’m plugging that because we’re so plugged in all. So I think that’s wonderful. I would love to just go off in the woods for three or four days, but yeah, I’m playing is a great thing and and for. Artists, especially because. Mines become so full with all this information constantly, I think sometimes it’s hard for our ideas to come out fully formed because of the constant interruptions. Thing I like to ask everybody cause. I think this is so personal. What is your definition of success?
Ginger Davis Allman – Well, it’s good to be multifaceted. I’d say the the most. Important thing is that I’m. Happy. I think that’s that, not #1. #2 that I’ve taken. Care of my responsibilities, my family, my health, my commitments. That type of thing.
Sage – Bouncing that all out, yeah.
Ginger Davis Allman – And I’d say. Third, do no harm. I it’s. I take it very seriously. That I don’t ever want to hurt anyone.
Sage – Yeah, yeah.
Ginger Davis Allman – And I think 4th, just make the world a better place.
Sage – Right, yeah.
Ginger Davis Allman – That’s it. If I can do. All that I want.
Sage – It is kind of a lot when you think about it. I mean, they’re all like, very common things. Everybody like, thinks. Oh yeah, I want that, but that’s a lot to do and that’s a lot to keep a few. This on.
Ginger Davis Allman – And it’s hard because you just want to. Eat Cheerios.
Sage – Neon orange chrysalides and think of all the butterflies that will never be. I do. I’m so everything’s like a visual story to me. Yeah, just. Yeah, that’s where I go. So in the previous conversation, you and I talked about your insiders group, which is a little different than your blue Bottle tree website concept that everybody knows you for. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Ginger Davis Allman – Bottle insiders. It’s a learning community. It’s a private membership community and it is all levels from beginners to advanced. There are articles. There’s a book club, there’s an open work room where 24/7. People go in there.
Sage – And that’s a zoom or something, right?
Ginger Davis Allman – Yeah. On zoom. Yeah, somebody’s almost always in there. There are forums, there’s articles, there are meetings. There are drop Inns throughout the week. There are five different drop in times, and that’s just like coffee hour. We talk about play, we talk about everything. Again, any questions about play? Come and somebody knows the answer, yeah. So it’s a really, really, really good place.
Sage – Oh, that’s great. Sounds like it’s much more community oriented than what your main website does.
Ginger Davis Allman – Right, the main website is just informative articles and then of course there are tutorials that I sell and that’s how I make my living is on the tutorials, deep dives into specific process.
Sage – Right, yeah. Right. Do you want to give us the links that people can go to to find your website and to find the insiders community?
Ginger Davis Allman – Sure, you can go to my.website@thebluebottletree.com and insiders. You can get a membership in the tutorial shop. On that website.
Sage – And are you on Instagram or Facebook or what social media are you on?
Ginger Davis Allman – I’m at the blue. Bottle tree pretty much everywhere, so on Instagram.
Sage – OK, great. Well this is. This has been fantastic. Thank you so much for all these thoughts about practice and how it’s not a repetition and duplication thing and that’s good to take back to the studio and go, yes, doing things over and over again. If duplication is your thing and that does something for you, that’s great, but there are definitely. Lots of other ways.
Ginger Davis Allman – Well, I don’t get a chance. To talk about. These things very often, so I’m really. Really, really glad.
Sage – Great. I’m glad we. Thank you so much for coming on.
Ginger Davis Allman – Thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity.
Sage – OK, what do you? All think just. Lots of great stuff to sift through there, right? Well, I hope you’re beginning to see practice as more than just boring repetition as something that encourages your sense of discovery and curiosity that helps. Add to the joy. You can find in your artistic endeavors. If this offers any breakthroughs or you think of something I didn’t cover, I’d love to hear your thoughts or even take questions on the subject. Whatever you can reach out on the website at the sagearts.com, go to the contact page and as you know, some comments work their way into future podcasts. It’s also your chance to help feed the muses of your fellow creatives, so let me know. I think as mentioned at the beginning, if you’re enjoying the episodes and find value in what I’m doing here, consider giving back by going to the sagearts.com website, where halfway down the homepage you’ll find buy me a coffee and PayPal donation buttons. Or you can now get stickers. I’m actually giving out two per order right now. They’re glossy laminated, but they’re not waterproof. I’ll look into getting some waterproof ones in. The future, but my Treehugger side just has. A hard time buying the vinyl. Ones, but the pretty. Glossy paper ones are on my polymer publication website 10th musearts.com. I’ll have a link in the show notes and the Sage Arts website homepage as well. Also, don’t forget to hit the follow button in your podcast player so you don’t miss an episode. And follow on social media. On Facebook or Instagram under the Sage Arts podcast. I’ve also been sending out weekly e-mail notices to my super secret. OK, it wasn’t always super secret, it was my previous blog mailing list, but it’s just my core group of people that have stuck with. For years. But if you’d like. To join that list and get notices. You can go. To the website at the sagearts.com to sign up or find the link for the sign up in the show notes. I send those emails out on Sunday morning. Well, my Sunday morning, totally different time. Other parts of the world, of course, if you’re listening in Europe or Australia, it’s late weekend or early work week. Notice I suppose I know there’s tons of you out there listening. So thank you. For working with me in my far away time zone and if you want to help spread the word about this podcast, hit the share buttons on those social media posts or you’re welcome to grab the images and repost them so other creatives that might be needing this kind of conversation can better find us. In the meantime, go get yourself some transformational practice time in your studio. Don’t forget. To feed your muse with new experiences.
Ginger Davis Allman – Be true to your.
Sage – Weirdness and join me again next week on the. Sage Arts podcast.
